Can I get a B&W developer recommendation?

[shawn2nd]

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Hey Guys, 

So I'm pretty new to the at home developing game, since Summer of 2023 I've developed roughly 25 rolls of 35mm at home, and have been really enjoying the process as a whole. The first developer I used, at recommendation of the workshop leader where I learned how to do this, was FX-39 II. I liked FX-39 II, but the main limitations I was running into with it is its develop times were quite long, and there wasn't great information on using it to push in digital truth. For example, HP5 is famously known for pushing, but the only the box speed is listed in the app for HP5 with FX-39 II. Maybe it can't be used for pushing at all? 🤷‍♂️

So for my second bottle, I picked up HC-110 due to its popularity on YouTube, short development times (5 Minutes to dev HP5 at ISO 400 with Dilution B vs 14 Minutes at ISO 400 with FX-39 II), and clear formulas for pushing in the digital truth app. What I'm not so happy about with HC-110 is mainly the viscosity of it because it's like maple syrup, I only have a 300ml one roll tank, so mixing 10ml of developer with small measure tubes, and the gigantic HC-110 bottle is super impractical, and secondly HC-110 is giving my negatives a slight yellow tint, which I previously didn't get on FX-39 II (All film shot was HP5). 

So I went back to trying to find a new developer, and now am of coursed overwhelmed with the options out there lol. So I'm hoping someone with more experience can recommend something based on the following criteria:

• Viscosity similar with water, easy to pour, easy to measure with small tubes and tank. 
• Faster-ish developer times. If I can develop HP5 at box speed in roughly 5-8 minutes this would be great. 
• Able to push HP5 to 800 and 1600 (with timings available in digital truth).
• Keeps a very neutral B&W appearance, no color tinting. 
• In case it matters, I want to develop using water at 20 degrees celsius. 

Thanks in advance guys!

[shawn2nd]

I will add, I was just reviewing the HC-110 data sheet, and on page 2 in the middle it states. "IMPORTANT NOTE: Due to the high viscosity of the developer concentrate, it is preferable to dilute it to a stock solution.This may be a more convenient way to store the chemical for future preparation into a working solution, per the above instructions."

I'm a bit confused here, does this mean Kodak recommends pre-mixing a large amount of HC-110 at a time to make the mixing easier, and then you just use this premix solution moving forward? I hadn't thought about this before, but this would at least fix the hard to mix problem I'm having. 

Can anyone confirm or add some real life experience here? I would guess that pre-mixing it means it has a shelf life, with the extended time in water the potency of the developer would diminish over time no?

HC 110 Data sheet: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/j24.pdf

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[Tom R]

1 hour ago, shawn2nd said:

Hey Guys, 

So I'm pretty new to the at home developing game, since Summer of 2023 I've developed roughly 25 rolls of 35mm at home, and have been really enjoying the process as a whole. The first developer I used, at recommendation of the workshop leader where I learned how to do this, was FX-39 II. I liked FX-39 II, but the main limitations I was running into with it is its develop times were quite long, and there wasn't great information on using it to push in digital truth. For example, HP5 is famously known for pushing, but the only the box speed is listed in the app for HP5 with FX-39 II. Maybe it can't be used for pushing at all? 🤷‍♂️

So for my second bottle, I picked up HC-110 due to its popularity on YouTube, short development times (5 Minutes to dev HP5 at ISO 400 with Dilution B vs 14 Minutes at ISO 400 with FX-39 II), and clear formulas for pushing in the digital truth app. What I'm not so happy about with HC-110 is mainly the viscosity of it because it's like maple syrup, I only have a 300ml one roll tank, so mixing 10ml of developer with small measure tubes, and the gigantic HC-110 bottle is super impractical, and secondly HC-110 is giving my negatives a slight yellow tint, which I previously didn't get on FX-39 II (All film shot was HP5). 

So I went back to trying to find a new developer, and now am of coursed overwhelmed with the options out there lol. So I'm hoping someone with more experience can recommend something based on the following criteria:

• Viscosity similar with water, easy to pour, easy to measure with small tubes and tank. 
• Faster-ish developer times. If I can develop HP5 at box speed in roughly 5-8 minutes this would be great. 
• Able to push HP5 to 800 and 1600 (with timings available in digital truth).
• Keeps a very neutral B&W appearance, no color tinting. 
• In case it matters, I want to develop using water at 20 degrees celsius. 

Thanks in advance guys!

Clayton's F76+ is available at Freestyle, located in LA. About $12 a liter bottle, dilute 1 part developer to 9 parts water to process most films. Maybe diluted 1 + 19 for pushing films. Once opened, if properly stored this developer has about a three month shelf life. Note, Freestyle repackages this developer in smaller bottles for those who process fewer rolls of films monthly. 

Sample developing times: TriX: 6 minutes at 20 degrees C (68 degrees F); 5 1/2 minutes at 24 C (75 F). TMAX-100, 7 minutes at 20 C, 6 minutes at 24 C ... you get this idea. I have attached the Company's Product Bulletin to this message if you're interested in other films. Note also, many other films have published times/temps on the Massive Development website (under the developer names F76+ or Arista Premium).

PBF76PLUSFILMDEVELOPER.pdf

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, shawn2nd said:

I'm a bit confused here, does this mean Kodak recommends pre-mixing a large amount of HC-110 at a time to make the mixing easier, and then you just use this premix solution moving forward?

That's exactly what they mean: take a bottle of HC-110 and dilute it into a large floating-lid tank. That will keep for a few weeks. Dilute it again as needed each time you process a batch of film.

That workflow isn't optimal for a home user, but it's very economical if you are running a lab.

 

In your case, you should pick a developer based on these criteria: availability, easy mixing, and push-ability.

I don't know what's regularly available in Germany, but the matching entry in Ilford's catalog is DD-X. It should push HP5 quite well, and it will also get full speed out of Delta 3200 (in case you want the speed but not the contrast).

A word of warning: a lot of discussion about film developers is like magic potions. Film developers all essentially do the same thing, but I rate them on a scale from "high sharpness" to "high speed". I haven't used FX-39, but if it's like Rodinal, it's at the sharpness end of that scale, as is HC-110. Developers like DD-X and T-Max are at the other end. Your classic developers like D-76 and ID-11 are in the middle, which is why many consider them to be "do everything" developers. Keep in mind that the differences are subtle. The best advice is to learn to use one developer (and one film), rather than chasing your tail with a variety of developers.

[250swb]

Firstly if you have the HC110 that's like syrup there are plenty of photographers who'd snap your hand off for it. The newer thinner HC110 isn't supposed to be as good even if you can get any with Kodak's supply chain problems. Just buy a small measuring cylinder to measure it out before dilution, it's not scary and it won't bite. Unless you are developing a lot of film diluting it to a stock solution is just going to be a waste if it goes off. And it shouldn't leave your negatives looking yellow, so don't blame it for that, maybe you aren't stopping or fixing enough? Secondly FX-39 is a very safe developer and is often recommended to novices, but it murders mid tones and gives very flat negatives so I'd put that to one side and use it for very high contrast scenes that need taming. 

If I were you I'd definitely stick with HC110 until you understand it, then when you try another developer you have a comparison. Beware of promises that something else is better, for now, . So use Dilution B which is 1+31, one part developer to 31 parts water, making 32. So however much you need, say 300ml for one 35mm film, divide 300 by 32 which is 9.3ml so round it up to 9.5ml if it helps measuring but keep that consistent. Then just look up the time on the Massive Dev Chart.

Edited November 17, 2023 by 250swb

[BernardC]

People use syringes or pipettes to measure small quantities of HC-110. That might make the process easier for you.

[Chuck Albertson]

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Microphen.

[Pyrogallol]

Try Rodinal. Dilute 1:25 for 8 minutes with HP5. It lasts for years in the bottle.

[shawn2nd]

Thanks all 🙂

[Chuck Albertson]

Microphen is in stock on the Fotoimpex Website - as a powder developer, more shipable; no zhissing and dripping like the liquids.

[hansvons]

I defaulted to Kodak Xtol some time ago. It's Kodak's most modern developer. You can buy Xtol as Adox XT3 at Fotoimpex, basically the same developer. Why Xtol/XT3? It develops fine-grained and sharp negatives with a relatively flat gamma curve. It's somewhat the antithesis of Rodinal, but it delivers full speed like Rodinal. I use it 1:1 diluted now, but you can replenish it (what I did for a year). It's pretty economical and comes in a super-easy-to-mix bag filled with powder (XT3 also in handy 1-litre packs). And lastly, it's based on vitamin C, making it more environmentally friendly than the usual suspects. 

[hansvons]

10 hours ago, 250swb said:

If I were you I'd definitely stick with HC110 until you understand it, then when you try another developer you have a comparison.

Sound advice. Maybe, just to figure out what's possible get a little bottle of Rodinal for comparison. I don't like it, much too grainy for me, but it's THE classic B&W developer. 

 

10 hours ago, BernardC said:

A word of warning: a lot of discussion about film developers is like magic potions.

This. 

[burchyk]

I decant HC-110 syrup into a small 100ml brown glass bottle for convenience and to reduce oxidation. For pouring and measuring I use a small 5ml syringe, 4ml / 250ml of water for dilution H which is (h)alf of B and about double the development time. Reduced gentle agitation, 30s initial then 1 every 3 minutes.

HP5+ @ EI250, 13:30m.

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[Einst_Stein]

For beginner, HC110 or Rodinal is the most popular starting point, even for a 10years beginner! D76 is probably more popular, but Itis in powder form if you don’t mind the mix process.

Any issues with HC110 or Ridinal? It is probably much easier to get used to it then switching to other developer. 
 

[250swb]

It isn't really necessary to decant HC-110 into small bottles to stop oxidation, it won't last decades like Rodinal but it will last many years in a half opened bottle. Going back to last years post by the OP, FX-39 is a great developer for slow films, but isn't recommended for 400 ISO or pushing which is why not much information is available on it. With FX-39 and say a 125 ISO film you get full emulsion speed, acutance similar to Rodinal, and a rich tonal range like Xtol. 

[Mr.Prime]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:58 AM, BernardC said:

Your classic developers like D-76 and ID-11 are in the middle, which is why many consider them to be "do everything" developers. Keep in mind that the differences are subtle. The best advice is to learn to use one developer (and one film), rather than chasing your tail with a variety of developers.

I read volumes on the internet about various developers - seems to have been a huge thing in the past, before digital, where there was really no other way to get a performance edge so even subtle improvements were valued. After the advent of digital I do find most discussions have toned down (small pun there!). 

I also look on-line at example images and some of them are just nasty, so I'm not sure why there was ever any attraction to them. Some developers are nasty all by themselves, being toxic to work with and toxic to everyone who drinks from your town's water supply.

In the end I realized I'll never shoot enough film and process enough film to get to properly know more than one developer, and maybe a 2nd developer a little. Same with film, where there are so many different film types and each responds differently to exposure. Mix that up with different developers and it's a freaking nightmare of variation.  I find film photography challenging enough already. 

So, depending on what you want out of the hobby, you may or may not align with my approah of keeping it real simple. I use D-76. I mix it up and pour it into brown bottles, enough for each bottle to be diluted for a Patterson tank one-time-use. I keep the brown bottles in a dark cupboard and they seem to last a couple of years. I find D-76, when used properly, produces good results. The limitation is probably with my film scanner (hybrid workflow) and not the developer. I should mention that I use classic emulsions like FP4 and HP5 rather than the so-called advanced T-grain film stock.

Edited April 3 by Mr.Prime

[Danner]

Haven't read all the comments, but my go-to for many years is, and remains, XTOL for HP5+.  It can be used as stock, 1+1; 1+2 and 1+3, which each subsequently reduce film contrast range a bit.  Stock or 1+1 will get you near your time preferences.  I usually use XTOL at stock strength.

[Pyrogallol]

Rodinal for everyday use and Moersch Tanol for best. Ilford Perceptol for something softer.