Anyone go back to the M10-R from the M11?

[T25UFO]

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56 minutes ago, Crem said:

I'll be curious to see if they ever make a M11 black paint considering the top plate is aluminium.

I don't think the aluminium top plate is the limiting factor.  Leica are now using a more environmentally friendly coating, even the black chrome models are different.  

The M10R BP could be the last of the line.

 

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[Crem]

40 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

I don't think the aluminium top plate is the limiting factor.  Leica are now using a more environmentally friendly coating, even the black chrome models are different.  

The M10R BP could be the last of the line.

 

As far as I know the Leica black paint is environmentally friendly and the environmental issues are only with the black chrome bodies. Leica could definitely make a brass M11 top plate and paint it black if they want to. My guess is it is easier to make other special editions like Safari and Reporter using the fancy new coating so we'll probably see those first. I do certainly hope the M10R BP isn't the last.

[bernstein1234]

47 minutes ago, Crem said:

As far as I know the Leica black paint is environmentally friendly and the environmental issues are only with the black chrome bodies. Leica could definitely make a brass M11 top plate and paint it black if they want to. My guess is it is easier to make other special editions like Safari and Reporter using the fancy new coating so we'll probably see those first. I do certainly hope the M10R BP isn't the last.

Given the negative points you mentioned about M11 earlier, would you still purchase one if it comes out in Black Paint? 

[Crem]

1 hour ago, bernstein1234 said:

Given the negative points you mentioned about M11 earlier, would you still purchase one if it comes out in Black Paint? 

I doubt I would be willing to spend on a BP M11. I'm so happy with the M10-R & M10-D that I can't imagine selling one or both of them to go back to the M11. Long term who knows. At some point the two bodies I have will get old and I'll want to upgrade to something. I imagine someday (M12?) the Leica engineers will figure out how to make reliable firmware and then I'll consider it. In the last year I've been bit by Leica's quality control issues twice: M11 firmware bugs & Steel Rim remake flaws. I think I'm taking a break from being a beta tester and the M11 still has that beta feeling after being around for nearly two years.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Crem

[muskyvibes]

Someone just contacted me on my IG curious if I would sell him/trade my Leica M10R BP for his M11. 

Obviously I said not in a million years, but it was interesting to see someone wanting to make the move to the M10R from the M11. 

I didn’t ask him why he wants to trade his M11 for an M10R. Not happy I guess. 

Sometimes, especially with the Leica M, less is definitely more. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by muskyvibes

[Crem]

6 hours ago, muskyvibes said:

Someone just contacted me on my IG curious if I would sell him/trade my Leica M10R BP for his M11. 

Obviously I said not in a million years, but it was interesting to see someone wanting to make the move to the M10R from the M11. 

I didn’t ask him why he wants to trade his M11 for an M10R. Not happy I guess. 

Sometimes, especially with the Leica M, less is definitely more. 

I've seen this multiple times. A number of people think their M11 is worth equal or more than a M10-D or M10-R BP of similar condition. It's absolutely not the case. My favorite was seeing Joe Greer (famous Instagram film photographer/influencer) asking on Twitter if anyone would trade their M10-D for his M11. Clearly nobody is going to do that trade. I have a feeling the M11 is this generations M5 in terms of long term value.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Crem

[muskyvibes]

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4 hours ago, Crem said:

I've seen this multiple times. A number of people think their M11 is worth equal or more than a M10-D or M10-R BP of similar condition. It's absolutely not the case. My favorite was seeing Joe Greer (famous Instagram film photographer/influencer) asking on Twitter if anyone would trade their M10-D for his M11. Clearly nobody is going to do that trade. I have a feeling the M11 is this generations M5 in terms of long term value.

Even if the M11 was worth a lot more than mine I wouldn’t trade it. I’m not sure how much my camera is worth in terms of money, but for me my M is irreplaceable.

I’ve really bonded with that BP M10R. Has some brassing marks on it where I put my thumb and how I hold it the base plate is also brassing on the left corner because I put it against my shirt as I hold and walk around. 

[250swb]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:55 PM, Crem said:

As far as I know the Leica black paint is environmentally friendly and the environmental issues are only with the black chrome bodies. Leica could definitely make a brass M11 top plate and paint it black if they want to. My guess is it is easier to make other special editions like Safari and Reporter using the fancy new coating so we'll probably see those first. I do certainly hope the M10R BP isn't the last.

I expect the world of manufacturing will also stop painting or coating things at the same time. So what happens then? Will all metal surfaces be unprotected from corrosion? Or is their some hysteria? Leica 'paint' has since the M9 been a powder coat process, and black chrome is the same as silver chrome, except it's black.

[Crem]

35 minutes ago, muskyvibes said:

Even if the M11 was worth a lot more than mine I wouldn’t trade it. I’m not sure how much my camera is worth in terms of money, but for me my M is irreplaceable.

I’ve really bonded with that BP M10R. Has some brassing marks on it where I put my thumb and how I hold it the base plate is also brassing on the left corner because I put it against my shirt as I hold and walk around. 

That's exactly how I feel about my M10-D. I can't imagine selling it and it would have to be for a crazy amount of money. I suspect the M10-D, M10 reporter, and M10-R BP are going to remain difficult to get even when M11 special editions come out.

[muskyvibes]

Just watched the last Alan Schaller video on his YouTube channel. He was walking around Paris taking photos. He was hanging out with Matt Stuart and Alan said “I’m shooting the M10 monochrome and you?”  And Matt said “I’m on the M10P”. Alan said “we prefer the M10 family don’t we?” Matt said “yes we do!”  

Not sure how much love the future M’s will evoke from their users, or if they’ll become another disposable consumer electronics device to be upgraded every couple of years chasing the new specs. 

[WvE]

7 hours ago, muskyvibes said:

Just watched the last Alan Schaller video on his YouTube channel. He was walking around Paris taking photos. He was hanging out with Matt Stuart and Alan said “I’m shooting the M10 monochrome and you?”  And Matt said “I’m on the M10P”. Alan said “we prefer the M10 family don’t we?” Matt said “yes we do!”  

Not sure how much love the future M’s will evoke from their users, or if they’ll become another disposable consumer electronics device to be upgraded every couple of years chasing the new specs. 

Yes, the M should not be packed with more and more MP's and other high-tech, leave that to others. Bring the M back to a heavy-duty and simple photographic tool, das Wesentliche (not gonna happen of course).  

[newtoleica]

2 hours ago, WvE said:

Yes, the M should not be packed with more and more MP's and other high-tech, leave that to others. Bring the M back to a heavy-duty and simple photographic tool, das Wesentliche (not gonna happen of course).  

Agree, I think the M11 will be seen as another mis-step like the M240.... controversial I know....

[costa43]

36 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

Agree, I think the M11 will be seen as another mis-step like the M240.... controversial I know....

I also think the m11 will go down as a miss in Leica M folklore. More so than the m240.  I find it too much of an in-between camera. Part M, part modern mirrorless. Not as refined as the m10 gen and not as tech heavy as the SL system. My hope is that Leica strip things back with an m12 or at least offers a more 'classic' version alongside it. 

[muskyvibes]

Anyway. Yes. In my experience people wanting to go backwards from the M11 is a real thing. 

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Edited December 14, 2023 by muskyvibes

[Crem]

21 hours ago, muskyvibes said:

Just watched the last Alan Schaller video on his YouTube channel. He was walking around Paris taking photos. He was hanging out with Matt Stuart and Alan said “I’m shooting the M10 monochrome and you?”  And Matt said “I’m on the M10P”. Alan said “we prefer the M10 family don’t we?” Matt said “yes we do!”  

Not sure how much love the future M’s will evoke from their users, or if they’ll become another disposable consumer electronics device to be upgraded every couple of years chasing the new specs. 

I just noticed that myself. I'm pretty sure Alan was part of the M11M launch marketing campaign so that's a big deal if he went back to the M10M. I think he's also a Leica ambassador/teacher. Either way, I'm glad to see they feel the same as us and hopefully Leica is listening.

The only good option I see for Leica is to split the M into two separate product lines:

1. A fairly simplistic M (bring back the M10-P/R, but with some enhancements?) and keep the firmware and features simple so that it's reliable.
2. A more complicated, high resolution, feature jam packed, EVF only, global shutter M with AI assistants for tack sharp manual focus.

Personally I want #1 above. I will never buy another new digital M if they focus only on #2.

[muskyvibes]

4 hours ago, Crem said:

I just noticed that myself. I'm pretty sure Alan was part of the M11M launch marketing campaign so that's a big deal if he went back to the M10M. I think he's also a Leica ambassador/teacher. Either way, I'm glad to see they feel the same as us and hopefully Leica is listening.

The only good option I see for Leica is to split the M into two separate product lines:

1. A fairly simplistic M (bring back the M10-P/R, but with some enhancements?) and keep the firmware and features simple so that it's reliable.
2. A more complicated, high resolution, feature jam packed, EVF only, global shutter M with AI assistants for tack sharp manual focus.

Personally I want #1 above. I will never buy another new digital M if they focus only on #2.

But he believes it is the “finest yet”

The guy’s gotta make a living 😀

[jakontil]

11 hours ago, Crem said:

I just noticed that myself. I'm pretty sure Alan was part of the M11M launch marketing campaign so that's a big deal if he went back to the M10M. I think he's also a Leica ambassador/teacher. Either way, I'm glad to see they feel the same as us and hopefully Leica is listening.

The only good option I see for Leica is to split the M into two separate product lines:

1. A fairly simplistic M (bring back the M10-P/R, but with some enhancements?) and keep the firmware and features simple so that it's reliable.
2. A more complicated, high resolution, feature jam packed, EVF only, global shutter M with AI assistants for tack sharp manual focus.

Personally I want #1 above. I will never buy another new digital M if they focus only on #2.

And if they dont make anything anymore out of brass, im out of the circle and hoping my M10r BP will last my lifetime 

oh wait im still keeping my M11 silver too

[overexposed]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:46 AM, muskyvibes said:

Someone just contacted me on my IG curious if I would sell him/trade my Leica M10R BP for his M11.

HAHHAHA, is it april 1st again?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[overexposed]

23 hours ago, newtoleica said:

Agree, I think the M11 will be seen as another mis-step like the M240.... controversial I know....

well at least leica doesnt shy away to correct "mistakes" like the frame line preview lever(who actually uses this thing?).

or removing little wanted features to improve the body ie. video feature in the M10

 

the only reason i dislike the M11, is, that its 99% safe to say its the sony sensor. no no no!

i like the smaller body for sure!

[muskyvibes]

20 minutes ago, overexposed said:

frame line preview lever(who actually uses this thing?).

It was very useful to me when I was deciding between the 28mm and 35mm when I didn’t have a 35mm lens to compare. The lever confirmed 35mm is what I needed.