21mm f/2.8 ELMARIT-M Close Focus

[Bberns22]

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Have been trying to dig up info on this lens and possibly purchase one. Saw a few photos taken by the lens and it produces interesting bubble bokeh when shot at the close focus of 38cm. Wondering if anyone can shed more light on the performance and possible availability.  This is what I know:

 

Production year:1979

Qty produced: 1000

Serial numbers: 29xxxxx

Filter thread: 49MM

Focus distance: 38cm

Est cost used in 2015: $4000+

 

 

 

 

 

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[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Bberns22:

Have been trying to dig up info on this lens and possibly purchase one. Saw a few photos taken by the lens and it produces interesting bubble bokeh when shot at the close focus of 38cm. Wondering if anyone can shed more light on the performance and possible availability.  This is what I know:

 

Production year:1979

Qty produced: 1000

Serial numbers: 29xxxxx

Filter thread: 49MM

Focus distance: 38cm

Est cost used in 2015: $4000+

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm, never heard of this lens. The first Elmarit 28mm wit 2,8 non asph. is younger and has a bigger filter thread (I own it). And 38cm min. focus distance sounds strange for we because the Messsucher has 70cm minimal focus distance. Do you have a picture of this lens? Then please post it. 

[a.noctilux]

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/21mm_f/2.8_Elmarit_M

only first version

RF focussing and non-RF focussing below 0.7m

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/45272-in-praise-of-the-mandler-lenses/

 

I think that version I has smaller size filter (E49 ?)

Wiki stated E39 which is an error

Filter type - E39 for early non-RF version; E60 for last version

 

 

 

[RexGig0]

Interesting; a “non-RF” first version of the 21mm Elmarit, with a closer MFD. I had thought about using a close-focusing ultra-wide-angle SLR lens, with an adapter, which might well be the less-expensive option, but it is good to know that this early Elmarit-M 21mm exists.

Edited to add: While looking through some web sites, after being stimulated by this discussion, I was reminded that the Zeiss 15mm f/2.8 Distagon ZM, which is also not rangefinder-coupled, but which is M-mount, has a Minimum Focusing Distance of 30cm, which is one reason why this one has been on my mental list of lenses to try, eventually, especially if/when I can find a good price for one that has been well-preserved. I have not, however, seen sample images of this Distagon’s bokeh potential.

Edited September 11, 2023 by RexGig0

[adan]

My very first M lens was the E60 version of the 21mm Emarit-M (bought new-old-stock in 2001 - still use it), but I knew about the E49 prototypes because one was used to illustrate the M4-P brochure.

I was intrigued by the more compact size, but suspect the filter diameter was enlarged after the first batch because of vignetting with filters. The E60 ring has always looked like an afterthought.  

The close-focus arrangement was probably originally included because the predecessor (Scheider-designed) Super-Angulons had that feature, down to 0.4m.

Not sure why the close-focus was dropped, but that was the era when Leitz had nearly cancelled the rangefinder line altogether, and the only things that saved it were major cost reductions and simplifications throughout the system, proposed by an ELCAN executive (M4-2, camera production shifted to Canada, no self-timer, zinc top plates, "grosser" embossed and simplified "Leitz" logo on the top instead of engraved, etc.).

Every extra bit of thread-milling that didn't increase desirability or sales (at that time) was probably considered "expendable."

[lct]

It is an E49 prototype, as mentioned by @adan above. Went for 7,200 EUR at a WestLicht Photographica Auction of November 2015 AFAIK.

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[Bberns22]

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Appreciate all the information.  Looked high and low and it seems that the 49MM version is truly a museum piece.  Was able to find an excellent copy of a close focus version with a very low serial number. <3xxx  This would seem to place the lens manufacture date in or around '79 / 80. Of interesting note this lens produces some bubble bokeh - while not large it is present under the right circumstances (see crop)

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[lct]

I wish it was that simple Seems like that there were two E49 variants actually, both with 0.4m MFD. Yours and an earlier one you can see below.

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[Bberns22]

26 minutes ago, lct said:

I wish it was that simple Seems like that there were two E49 variants actually, both with 0.4m MFD. Yours and an earlier one you can see below.

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Thanks for the pic! Although its an early serial number my lens is an E60, nonetheless I am satisfied with the performace.  I was strongly considering the 21Mm Summilux, however the 70CM close focus distance was insuffecient.  Sometimes I like to use a wide lens' up close for street work so the Elmarit fits the bill. 

[lct]

1 hour ago, Bberns22 said:

Thanks for the pic! Although its an early serial number my lens is an E60, nonetheless I am satisfied with the performace.  I was strongly considering the 21Mm Summilux, however the 70CM close focus distance was insuffecient.  Sometimes I like to use a wide lens' up close for street work so the Elmarit fits the bill. 

Mine have long been the 0.7m Elmarit 21/2.8 asph and SEM 21/3.4 asph but i re-discovered the 0.4m S-A 21/3.4 thanks to the BSI sensor of my Kolari mod a7r2 and this prompted me to try another close focus gem the 0.5m Biogon 21/4.5 on both a7r2 mod and M11 the BSI sensor of which is immune from red edges and other color shifts as well. This snap has been shot with the S-A 21/3.4 (a7r2 mod, FF and crop). I could not believe that this was possible with a Super-Angulon in my film days.

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[JMF]

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Edited April 12, 2024 by JMF

[sarav]

I had several 21mm looking for a good sample together with nice bokeh. It's not an easy task. My preferred one was the 21 e60 with close focus, 3d rendering, nice bokeh and perfect in shooting to people groups (close focus and high field curvature error help in this situation, you'll find in your shot more peoples in focus than you think and creamy "Mandler bokeh" in the background). The big problem with this lens is in hyperfocal-shot style, you have to close 2 stops than recommended to obtain decent details at infinity in the whole field.
I now have the last 3.4 SE and a 24 Summilux. The first for "simple" shots and the latter for proximity shots balanced with nice out-of-focus. They both have very high details and high overall performances in their respective usage.

Edited April 20, 2024 by sarav

[01af]

The square shape of the Elmarit-M 21 mm prototype's hood suggests it wasn't meant for 24 × 36 mm format but for 24 × 24 mm.  Have there been any prototype M cameras using a square format?

EDIT: No, wait! Upon second glance, it's not perfectly square. But neither is it shaped to fit 3:2 aspect ratio. Maybe it was meant for the 18 × 24 mm half-frame format. If so then it would be approximately equivalent to a 28 mm full-frame lens—and probably not able to fully illuminate 24 × 36 mm. This also would explain the absurdly small 49 mm filter diameter. After all, the first Elmarit-M 21 mm for full-frame format had 60 mm filter size. Why this huge size when the earlier prototype got away with 49 mm?

And indeed there was a half-frame Leica prototype camera at some point ...

Edited April 20, 2024 by 01af

[hjddd]

I have the 21 2.8 E60 with mini focus 0.4m 。