First time Leica M owner - sharing my first impressions

[Leicaboy Norway]

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1 hour ago, Gregm61 said:

Either of the later 90mm f2.8’s, the Tele Elmarit or the last, 90mm f2.8 Elmarit-M, are plenty small enough.

And either one can be, if you want, retrofitted with 6 bit codings.

Whats the advantage of that 6 bit coding?

[Gregm61]

4 hours ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

Whats the advantage of that 6 bit coding?

Primarily, for me at least, including the lens information in the EXIF data vs “uncoded” and no lens data in the file information of each image file captured.

If I want to review images later shot with a specific lens the images can all be pulled easily in Adobe Bridge.

I own my share of uncoded lenses, primarily Cosina/Voigtlander branded, but given a choice I’d rather have  bag of 6 bit coded lenses with a digital-M for the information convenience.

I use raw capture exclusively and almost never apply the lens profile in Adobe Camera raw as I process my files so it’s not for any internal assistance the lens profile might provide to an image captured as an in-camera jpeg since I don’t do those.

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Gregm61

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13 hours ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

Thanks for the post as a whole!

 

Agree regarding big lenses on a small rangefinder. Not for me either. But the 90 2.8 isn't too large (I think?). Also considering the voigtlander 75 1.5 in the long run.

 

Had a summicron-r 50 mm f2 v2 that to me was totally unimpressive on my Pentax k1. Kinda weird the 50mm m v5 is so nice.

About Elmarits and Elmars. I did not mention it because my post was primarily about my love for Summicron's and the difference with Summilux. I do love the Leica Elmarit 90 mm versions. Even the old versions are not too large or heavy, and the Tele-Elmarit 90mm F2.8 is a real gem in a very small package. The Elmar 90 C F4.0 is almost as good, and small, but is a stop slower. The Tele-Elmarit 90 F2.8 was my favorite until I got the Macro Elmar 90 F4.0 collapsible. For portraits the Tele-Elmarit still gets some use, but for everything else the Macro Elmar is in a class on its own. (also in price) Weight, size, short range, long range, wide open, closed down, color accuracy, 3D pop... You name it. It is even hard to find any M lens that sticks out of the bunch like this one.

Elmarit's can be very good too. Even the 135mm Elmarit's are very good, but then the size and the extra goggles makes them less attractive for use on the M. If anything, I would compare its superiority with the APO Telyt-R 1:2.8/280. This lens is impressive in every way. Unfortunately also in size and weight (2,5 kg). So it sits on the shelf much more than the Macro Elmar 90 M.

Not only for small tele, but also in wides the Elmarit can be a good choice. I enjoyed my Leica Elmarit 1:2.8/28 mm ASPH on the M8 very much. Because of the crop factor it was close to 40 mm equivalent, and it was very compact too. When I started using my FF M9 it felt a bit wide, so I sold it. Maybe, I should not have... I am still looking for a good replacement. It would be great on my cropped TL2 now. But if there is a small, affordable Summicron or Summilux in the same FL, I would prefer that one.

For 135mm the Elmar and Tele-Elmar lenses are the best IMO. And they are even cheaper than 90mm vintage M lenses. I do not get that. In the past they were hard to use because they are on the edge of the RF possibilities. But now, with EVF and live view, that should not be an issue anymore.

PS:
I admit that the Summicron 50 v2 renders differently compared to the v5. But it is not bad at all on the M's. Mine has had a CLA as most of the 60's and 70's lenses need one to achieve their potential. Maybe the condition of your sample was the reason you were not impressed?

[espelt]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Leicaboy Norway:

Also considering the voigtlander 75 1.5 in the long run.

First of all, congratulations on the M 240. Even though the camera is now a few years old, I still find it very attractive and wonderful to work with. Of course, more recent models are superior in some respects. But they also tear bigger holes in the bank account. And so the M240 is probably the cheapest entry into the digital M world at the moment. In any case, I like using it very much and get along very well with it. My favorite lenses on the M are the 35mm Summicron. And as a supplement to this when traveling a 75er. I chose the Summarit f2.5. Very good image quality and sharpness and very handy and small. Anything that goes beyond that and is bigger, I personally don't like about the M. It just gets unwieldy. From time to time I like to take the M with me with just a 50. I find the Elmar M (new version) very nice. Incidentally, it works wonderfully on the M 240. To be on the safe side, I always use it extended.

[Landberg]

On 8/29/2023 at 5:25 PM, Leicaboy Norway said:

Hey guys!

First time I am writing here...

So I have owned the Leica Q for a few years. The reason I really like it is the portability, fast lens, nice IQ and good looks.

I also have a Pentax K-1, Canon R5 and a Fujifilm X-T30 and have shot Sony and Nikon before.

Like most photographers I struggle with motivation from time to time. All of a sudden I decided to part with my huge, but excellent Canon RF 85mm f/1.2. It is the sharpest out of every lens I have ever used, but the size and weight made rarely wanting to pick it up. And if so, it was very result oriented. Not a super fun lens to shoot with (for me).

I used the money to buy a Leica M240. I already had a Voigtlander Ultron 35mm 1.7.

2 days after I received my Leica M240 I decided to get a Leica Summicron 50mm f/2 v5 (got a deal here in Norway for $1300 and it barely shows signs of use. Is that a good deal btw? I know it is silly, but the Voigtlander is great and all but I wanted a real Leica lens too.

 

Anyway, having shot loads of cameras, mirrorless, dslr, analog and digital - this was my first manual focus rangefinder experience.

And wow, I am having so much fun. I am getting faster and faster at focusing. And that 50 mm lens is super nice. It actually feels like a better lens than that 28mm 1.7 Summilux on the Leica q???? Would love to hear from others regarding this comparison...

I am also seeing photos with more character and depth, but it may be subjective. It really feels quite different from the Leica Q, and I am not only thinking about the autofocus vs manual focus. The Leica Q feels quite similar to Fuji and other brands, although a slightly better fixed lens camera than those.

 

 

Nice! M240 is a great camera. Use it till you break it. Don't upgrade. I had the money to buy the M10 but I got the M240 because it's a good camera. Don't buy more than you need. 

 

[sometimesmaybe]

@Leicaboy Norway welcome to the LUF!

given you have the R5 already, i assume you didnt buy the m240 for 'ultimate' IQ. if thats the case, just enjoy the limitations of the M system and the m240. i have the GFX100s for work that 'needs' the IQ or colour, but for everything else, i pick up my m246 (the monochrom version of your m240). the limitations keeps things interesting 🤓 

 

[Leicaboy Norway]

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On 9/4/2023 at 12:45 AM, sometimesmaybe said:

@Leicaboy Norway welcome to the LUF!

given you have the R5 already, i assume you didnt buy the m240 for 'ultimate' IQ. if thats the case, just enjoy the limitations of the M system and the m240. i have the GFX100s for work that 'needs' the IQ or colour, but for everything else, i pick up my m246 (the monochrom version of your m240). the limitations keeps things interesting 🤓 

 

Absolutely correct. This is for the pleasure of shooting. Pleasure of slowing down and interacting with the camera. But also to explore if there are other ingredients or sides to the iq that I might like and enjoy besides just the trivial sharpness or resolution for ppl who enjoy shooting brick walls 😉😜

[Leicaboy Norway]

Maybe this will rub some people the wrong way. But I have zeiss and contax zeiss lenses for other systems and subjectively feel there is a 3d effect to many of the photos. Maybe it's just the very high definition and smooth falloff? Don't know.

But.. I've never been disappointed by my Leica q's image quality. But I can't see ice seen a very 3d look. And to the discussion about the summilux lenses being dreamy wide open: I don't feel that is accurate for the q either.

I've only used my "New" summicron 50mm f2 v5 (turns out it is 6 bit coded too. Really good deal for $1300 +\-), and maybe I see a bit more 3d like definition here when stopped down. But still (or should I say so far?) I still feel the leica lenses has other qualities than the zeiss', with the latter maybe being more distinct in the "3d pop" thing. Not ranking them. That's uninteresting for me. Just comparing some sides to them, which may or may not be there.

Limitations: i Havent used zeiss on leica m, only on mirrorless and digital and analog dslr.

And yes I'm aware of the fact not everyone feels the 3d expression is real or precise, but that's another discussion (also subjective just like the one I now started 😆)

 

Now I'm done rambling 😂

 

 

 

[Olaf_ZG]

@Leicaboy Norway my favorite fl is 50mm. I bought the zeiss sonnar and really love it for portraits and stills. Added a lux asph, which is great full open with a total different rendering than the sonnar, but rather heavy. So I added a planar as well, for easy carry.

to me, two great brands complementing each other.

[Ray Vonn]

3 hours ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

I still feel the leica lenses has other qualities than the zeiss', with the latter maybe being more distinct in the "3d pop" thing. Not ranking them. That's uninteresting for me.

That's sounds about right generally speaking, with the provisio that in time, the gentler but still sharp characteristics of the Summicron lenses do become more apparent.  You'll see.

[sometimesmaybe]

5 hours ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

i Havent used zeiss on leica m, only on mirrorless and digital and analog dslr

from memory lecia uses specific microlenses around the edges of its M sensors. M mount glass wont look as good on a DSLR or mirrorless because of this

 

[Leicaboy Norway]

7 hours ago, sometimesmaybe said:

from memory lecia uses specific microlenses around the edges of its M sensors. M mount glass wont look as good on a DSLR or mirrorless because of this

 

Interesting! Didn't know that!

 

My point was that the 3d pop with Zeiss that I've seen is only on dslr/mirrorless and not RF, but Id assume you'd see it on Leica M too.

[Chuck C.]

Just wanted to respond to that earlier post that was basically bad-mouthing the M240 (you know who you are).  Do not believe that foolishness.  I have the M240 - and the M10 - and the M9 (wonderful CCD) and so on (even a Leica Q).  Each M camera has its plusses and minuses.  But overall it is a great experience shooting with any of these M cameras.  Do not underestimate the value or capability of the M240.  It is a great camera and a bargain in terms of price for a well-maintained M.  If you understand how to use the M240 (its scope and limits) you will get some outstanding photos from it.  In fact, I am currently in France for a month shooting with my M240, M10, and even my Q.  Getting great shots from all three.  In my opinion, the thicker M240 does not bother me at all, and I even shoot video with it on occasion (another example of not listening to the disparaging of the M240 - i.e., the video). 

BTW, I primarily shoot with Voigtlander M mount primes.  Best bang for the buck.  Excellent lenses.

For anyone comtemplating or purchasing an M240, you are making a wise choice.  For a great price (by Leica standards), it is also an excellent entry-point into the world of the M system.

Do not be deterred by the negativism and misguided opinions from some on this forum.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Chuck C.
typo

[Leicaboy Norway]

23 minutes ago, Chuck C. said:

Just wanted to respond to that earlier post that was basically bad-mouthing the M240 (you know who you are).  Do not believe that foolishness.  I have the M240 - and the M10 - and the M9 (wonderful CCD) and so on (even a Leica Q).  Each M camera has its plusses and minuses.  But overall it is a great experience shooting with any of these M cameras.  Do not underestimate the value or capability of the M240.  It is a great camera and a bargain in terms of price for a well-maintained M.  If you understand how to use the M240 (its scope and limits) you will get some outstanding photos from it.  In fact, I am currently in France for a month shooting with my M240, M10, and even my Q.  Getting great shots from all three.  In my opinion, the thicker M240 does not bother me at all, and I even shoot video with it on occasion (another example of not listening to the disparaging of the M240 - i.e., the video). 

BTW, I primarily shoot with Voigtlander M mount primes.  Best bang for the buck.  Excellent lenses.

For anyone comtemplating or purchasing an M240, you are making a wise choice.  For a great price (by Leica standards), it is also an excellent entry-point into the world of the M system.

Do not be deterred by the negativism and misguided opinions from some on this forum.

Thanks for sharing, buddy! Yeah, I don't think I'm going to upgrade just for the sake of it. I mean, it's a bit slow, sometimes when I press the shutter it taks a second, but it's part of the package of slowing down and loving / accepting the quirks and engaging with the camera.

 

I'd much rather get a special lens with some history to add then switch out the camera house right away. As another guy here said I have a Canon R5 and a RF 50mm 1.2 for clinical effiancy and workhorse.

[sometimesmaybe]

17 hours ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

My point was that the 3d pop with Zeiss that I've seen is only on dslr/mirrorless and not RF, but Id assume you'd see it on Leica M too.

i dont have any native M mount Zeiss - ive only shot with CZJ Flektogon 35mm f2.4 on my m246 (with EVF). not sure i see the Zeiss pop 😬 but i do like the flek's rendering

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12 hours ago, Chuck C. said:

BTW, I primarily shoot with Voigtlander M mount primes.  Best bang for the buck.  Excellent lenses.

strongly seconded by me! my fav M mount lens CV 35mm f1.2 v3

 

[mfunnell]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:59 AM, Leicaboy Norway said:

Maybe this will rub some people the wrong way. But I have zeiss and contax zeiss lenses for other systems and subjectively feel there is a 3d effect to many of the photos. Maybe it's just the very high definition and smooth falloff? Don't know.

But.. I've never been disappointed by my Leica q's image quality. But I can't see ice seen a very 3d look. And to the discussion about the summilux lenses being dreamy wide open: I don't feel that is accurate for the q either.

I've only used my "New" summicron 50mm f2 v5 (turns out it is 6 bit coded too. Really good deal for $1300 +\-), and maybe I see a bit more 3d like definition here when stopped down. But still (or should I say so far?) I still feel the leica lenses has other qualities than the zeiss', with the latter maybe being more distinct in the "3d pop" thing. Not ranking them. That's uninteresting for me. Just comparing some sides to them, which may or may not be there.

Limitations: i Havent used zeiss on leica m, only on mirrorless and digital and analog dslr.

And yes I'm aware of the fact not everyone feels the 3d expression is real or precise, but that's another discussion (also subjective just like the one I now started 😆)

 

Now I'm done rambling 😂

 

 

 

Zeiss ZM lenses work great with an M type 240! I can't really talk to what you see as "3d like definition" or "3d pop" as I can't really know what you mean by those. Still, the ones I have are very good lenses. I have the ZM C-Sonnar 50mm/F1.5 and the ZM Distagon 18mm/f4.

I have and use lenses from Konica and Cosina Voigtländer and they work great too. Of course, I also have Leica lenses, but none of the ultra-modern whizz-bang ones (my most recently made one is the Elmar-M 50mm/f2.8, bought new back when they were still making them).

Just in case they're of some use as illustrations, here's a photo (the B&W one) made today with the C-Sonnar 50mm, and an old shot from the Distagon 18mm (in colour).

   ...Mike

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Edited September 8, 2023 by mfunnell
minor change to wording and emphasis

[mfunnell]

20 hours ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

Thanks for sharing, buddy! Yeah, I don't think I'm going to upgrade just for the sake of it. I mean, it's a bit slow, sometimes when I press the shutter it taks a second, but it's part of the package of slowing down and loving / accepting the quirks and engaging with the camera.

 

I'd much rather get a special lens with some history to add then switch out the camera house right away. As another guy here said I have a Canon R5 and a RF 50mm 1.2 for clinical effiancy and workhorse.

I'm wondering about that "it's a bit slow, sometimes when I press the shutter it taks a second" thing. Because my M240 certainly doesn't. If it's a matter of taking photos too quickly to clear the buffer, that's one thing (and likely there's nothing much to do about it, if that's your style of photography). But if that isn't it, then maybe it can be corrected.

When I first bought my M240 (way, way, back when) it came with (a) glitches; and (b) firmware of around v1.0 (and version 1.0 of anything is, um, not-so-hotso). Upgrading firmware helped a lot.

But the other big thing for me was getting the right SD card (recommended here as I recall it) then formatting it with "SD Formatter". The 2nd ("SD Formatter") part made a huge difference. My sometimes slow-to-respond shutter release became more-or-less immediate! That matters.

As an example, the shot below (taken today) needed precise timing to get the angle between the delivery-man and trolley, his reflection, and the angle of the menu on the stand, to all align. (The photo might not be to everyone's taste, but the timing part would be the same regardless). If your camera isn't releasing the shutter exactly when you want it to, well, that's a problem and it might well be a problem that can be corrected.

   ...Mike

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Edited September 8, 2023 by mfunnell
"taken today"

[Leicaboy Norway]

6 hours ago, mfunnell said:

I'm wondering about that "it's a bit slow, sometimes when I press the shutter it taks a second" thing. Because my M240 certainly doesn't. If it's a matter of taking photos too quickly to clear the buffer, that's one thing (and likely there's nothing much to do about it, if that's your style of photography). But if that isn't it, then maybe it can be corrected.

When I first bought my M240 (way, way, back when) it came with (a) glitches; and (b) firmware of around v1.0 (and version 1.0 of anything is, um, not-so-hotso). Upgrading firmware helped a lot.

But the other big thing for me was getting the right SD card (recommended here as I recall it) then formatting it with "SD Formatter". The 2nd ("SD Formatter") part made a huge difference. My sometimes slow-to-respond shutter release became more-or-less immediate! That matters.

As an example, the shot below (taken today) needed precise timing to get the angle between the delivery-man and trolley, his reflection, and the angle of the menu on the stand, to all align. (The photo might not be to everyone's taste, but the timing part would be the same regardless). If your camera isn't releasing the shutter exactly when you want it to, well, that's a problem and it might well be a problem that can be corrected.

   ...Mike

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I'll definitely check out your tips! Because yes it's a small lag almost when pressing the shutter button. I'm going to do some research, even though it doesn't bother me a whole lot. Thanks!

[Leicaboy Norway]

You guys, I have a Voigtlander Ultron 35mm 1.7 that I bought before I bought my m240...

I was so pleased with it on my Fuji x and Canon R5 and it also does well on the Leica. 

But with this new M mount travel i'm on, sharpness is not my first priority. 

As many others I want the experience and emotions closer to film. 

The mentioned 3d like pop, or image character is first. I'm not saying I want soft photos, but I want photos that transmit feelings beyond the compositional values. I mean colors and character, the right contrast etc.

That's why I was wondering if maybe I should consider another 35mm lens or at least something a bit wider than my 50.

Or should I just stick with the VM 35 1.7? IT hasn't really "done anything wrong"

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[Ray Vonn]

1 hour ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

You guys, I have a Voigtlander Ultron 35mm 1.7 that I bought before I bought my m240...

I was so pleased with it on my Fuji x and Canon R5 and it also does well on the Leica. 

But with this new M mount travel i'm on, sharpness is not my first priority. 

As many others I want the experience and emotions closer to film. 

The mentioned 3d like pop, or image character is first. I'm not saying I want soft photos, but I want photos that transmit feelings beyond the compositional values. I mean colors and character, the right contrast etc.

That's why I was wondering if maybe I should consider another 35mm lens or at least something a bit wider than my 50.

Or should I just stick with the VM 35 1.7? IT hasn't really "done anything wrong"

That 35mm F1.7 is a super lens, keep it.