Circ. Polarizers on M glass

[Bobonli]

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I've read through what threads I can find on this topic and have a couple of remaining questions. From what I understand there's basically two options:

1. Find and buy the Leica swing-away arm gizmo. That looks pretty clunky, to be honest, and I'm not sure I want to walk around with that all day....or

2. Mark the ring of the filter, hold it up to your eye....etc and then screw it on. 

I tried #2 yesterday, albeit with a grossly oversized 52mm filter because that's all I have right now. I understand the concept and it seems like it's less stuff to carry around compared to the arm gizmo. I'm shooting film, so I won't see the results right away; envy you digital shooters who can use LV (maybe that's the justification to buy an M11  

How many people are doing this in real life with film M's? ..or do you just skip the polarizer altogether because the cameras aren't really optimized for this purpose.

[wda]

I had no difficulty using the swing pol filter or my M3. It did not live on the lens, but was quite effective when needed.

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[RexGig0]

There is what amounts to a step-up ring, that threads into the lens, and has an outer ring that accpets a larger filter, and has one or more windows, to allow the shooter to see the polarizing effect, while looking through the viewfinder. Leica has made them for specific lenses, such as the 21mm and 24mm Summiluxes, 18mm Super Elmar, and one that threads onto any Noctilux, or other lens with a standard E60 filter thread, that accepts 77mm filters.

I have seen this listing, for this third-party filter holder, with vents/windows, for the common M lens filter threads, sold by Popflash:

https://www.popflash.com/lens-filters/leica-filterview-new-by-photo-equip/

I have no affiliation with Popflash, but have bought things from them, based upon their reputation for prompt, reliable service. I have not personally seen or handled the product, in the link. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by RexGig0

[J S H]

If you don't have an EVF or are using a film camera, the Leica swing out Polarizer is great. It's not that big, so will live happily in a pocket of your bag until you need it. When you do need it, the results are excellent. I keep the adapter rings with it, and usually leave the 39mm attached so that I can screw it right onto the lens. 

[Bronco McBeast]

Old pro infaillible trick, Please!

Have 2 pola filters: one on the lens and (a cheap) one in your pocket. Mark both with a dab of red mail polish on their rim, on the exact same maximum polarizing spot. 

In other words; make them match.

Now, when you see an interesting scene take out the filter from your backpocket, or jeans mini-pocket, rotate it and match the red dot position to the filter that’s on your lens, and shoot.

 

Old Pro infaillible trick.

[tobey bilek]

I use usually 39mm front filter lenses so my old single size fits all lenses.  you can use the swing out over the camera top or viewfinder window.

Get a newer one that is grey or neutral.  Originals impart a green cast you can see if looking at white paper.

[pippy]

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For general pictorial photographic use (*darkening skies etc.) with Circ. Pola. filters there are two approaches which work well for me.

First approach concerns the Leitz E39 and E55 fiters and my 37(?)mm 'Jessops' own-brand filter for the TTA 28mm f5.6.

The Leitz POOTR 39mm Circ. Pola. has an upper-case 'P' marked on the front face of the filter bezel. When the camera is used horizontally having the 'P' at the 12 o'clock (or, of course, 6 o'clock) position gives - as a general rule - the most profound sky-darkening-polarizing-effect. If the camera is used in 'portrait' orientation then the filter should be rotated 90 degrees to keep the 'P' at 12 / 6 o'clock. The POOTR also has additional markings around its ring which might be used in different situations.

The 55mm Circ. Pola. (13357) doesn't have the 'P' engraving. What it DOES have are a two sets of engravings on the outer-edge of the rotating part. These read ''LEITZ E55 P-clr 13357" and - 180 degrees around from this set - "GERMANY". In the same manner as the POOTR when the 'P-clr' or 'GERMANY' is set to 12 / 6 o'clock the filter works in the same manner as the 'P' of the POOTR.

The cheap'n'cheerful Jessops filter had no marking whatsoever so, using trial and error (which took around 3 seconds) I ascertained where the filter-ring worked strongest and filed a tiny notch / slot on the front-edge of the ring surround at the 12 o'clock position. As this bares the silver-coloured metal it stands out most distinctly against the matt-black finish of the filter-ring. Used as per both other filters mentioned earlier.

Second approach is slightly different in terms of preparation but identical in execution and concerns the 12504 hood / 13370 Series VII Pola for the 35mm Summilux v2 although this hood / filter combination can also be used on other lenses.

The 12504 hood unscrews to allow Series VII filters to be dropped into place. The 13370 filter has a Yellow Dot marking the equivalent of the 'P' of the POOTR. In use this yellow dot MUST be placed in the hood so that it is 'facing backwards' towards the front element; not 'facing forwards' towards the subject matter. As this dot will, therefore, be invisible once the hood is assembled my approach (although I doubt I invented the idea!) is to drop the filter in so that the Dot aligns with one of the silver pinch-clips on the mounting-ring of the hood. In this fashion the cinch clips will both be acting as the 'P' of the POOTR (etc) so when the clips face 12 / 6 o'clock the filter is working at full-strength. Changing from Horizontal to Portrait orientation merely requires the hood to be rotated 90 degrees.

Not sure if any of these ideas will work for you as I don't know which lens(es) nor filter(s) you are using but they tend to work really well for me. I'm sure you could work out something similar which will work for you.

Philip.

* I must stress that, as I wrote right at the beginning, this is "...For general pictorial photographic use..."; for photographs where the reflection-cancelling properties of the Circ. Pola. are of prime importance the technique to be used would, of neccessity, be slightly different and subject-dependent.

Edited August 12, 2023 by pippy

[Bronco McBeast]

It isnt about the “p” on the filter. It’s about the positiion of the sun. The positiin of the “p” for deepest sky blue will always vary.

[pippy]

30 minutes ago, Bronco McBeast said:

It isnt about the “p” on the filter. It’s about the positiion of the sun. The positiin of the “p” for deepest sky blue will always vary.

Good Grief.

Yes, I know that, but If the OP doesn't want to use a 13352 or else unscrew/rescrew a filter before every shot I still stand by my first sentence. YMMV.

If you have a better and simpler method of using a Circ. Pola. with a Film or Non-Live-View M-camera then, by all means, please share it with us.

Philip.

Edited August 12, 2023 by pippy

[Bobonli]

3 hours ago, tobey bilek said:

I use usually 39mm front filter lenses so my old single size fits all lenses.  you can use the swing out over the camera top or viewfinder window.

Get a newer one that is grey or neutral.  Originals impart a green cast you can see if looking at white paper.

Tell me more about the green, cast and what model # to look for please? I found an M 13356 online this afternoon but the serial number doesn't mean a thing to me! The item description states, "The new universal polarizing filter replaces the former polarizing filter A42."

Of course I went out this afternoon and everywhere I looked I thought "that could benefit from a CP" 

[pippy]

8 hours ago, Bobonli said:

...I found an M 13356 online this afternoon but the serial number doesn't mean a thing to me!...

The 13356 is a newer version of the old 13352 swing-out-Pola and the former came out (AFAIK) in 2005. The 13352 had been around since 1939(!) and could be used with everything from the 35mm f2 through various 50mm and 90mm lenses right up to the 135mm f4.

The earlier 13352 was released in the days when the majority of 'normal' focal-length Leitz M-mount lenses could be had with a 39mm filter thread. After the turn of the millenia, however, there were more and more Leica lenses produced where the filter thread was 46mm hence the updated filter/hood. As such the 13356 has filter-rings to allow for use on both E39 and E46 style lenses and the use of the term 'Universal Polarizing Filter' in its description.

Philip.

Edited August 13, 2023 by pippy

[Bobonli]

5 hours ago, pippy said:

The 13356 is a newer version of the old 13352 swing-out-Pola and the former came out (AFAIK) in 2005. The 13352 had been around since 1939(!) and could be used with everything from the 35mm f2 through various 50mm and 90mm lenses right up to the 135mm f4.

The earlier 13352 was released in the days when the majority of 'normal' focal-length Leitz M-mount lenses could be had with a 39mm filter thread. After the turn of the millenia, however, there were more and more Leica lenses produced where the filter thread was 46mm hence the updated filter/hood. As such the 13356 has filter-rings to allow for use on both E39 and E46 style lenses and the use of the term 'Universal Polarizing Filter' in its description.

Philip.

Thank you. What about the color cast referred to in the previous post?

[rramesh]

When you rotate the polarising filter, at maximum polarising effect, the film speed indicated in the M viewfinder will be lowest.

[Bobonli]

Not if the camera doesn’t have a meter!

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Bobonli said:

Thank you. What about the color cast referred to in the previous post?

Interesting question.

Most Polarisers I've ever used exhibit some slight tinge of either Green or Blue when placed upon pure white paper yet there has never (IMX) been any noticeable hint of colour shift in the final image. Having said that when using some filters the wrong way 'round (see comment re: the positioning of the Series VII 13370's Yellow Dot mentioned in the 'Second approach' paragraph in post #7) there IS sometimes a distinct shift in colour-tone. I have seen this not just with the Leica Filter but also when I used LEE sheet-Pola filters during my 5x4 life.

It is possible that in 'The Old Days' (i.e. pre-digital) any slight colour-shift brought about through using a Pola went unnoticed as there were so many other variables which came into play when shooting colour film stock. Choice of film stock - obviously - was the biggie! Kodak? Agfa? Fuji? The essential character, colour-wise, between ALL of these companies was - and still is - different to all the others. Then there's the processing stage. The choice of lens used - even lenses from within the same marque - to capture the image could change fundamental white-balance settings(*). Printing introduces a whole new white-balance problem...etc...etc...etc...

Serendipitously tomorrow my work involves shooting artifacts including several artworks where accuracy of colour, as one might expect, is of paramount importance. Prior to starting the shooting 'proper' I will have to colour-calibrate the whole system to achieve colour-neutral. Once set - but before I start work - I will endeavour to rattle-off some test-frames using some different Pola's to see how far each strays from neutral by checking the results of the neutral grey-tones of my colour-checker.

If there is anything interesting to report I'll let you know.

Philip.

* My pro work is shot using Canon DSLR kit. Of the lenses I use there is ONE lens - a 50mm prime - which I know always needs to have extra Green dialled-in to match the results from all the other lenses.

Edited August 13, 2023 by pippy

[pippy]

55 minutes ago, rramesh said:

When you rotate the polarising filter, at maximum polarising effect, the film speed indicated in the M viewfinder will be lowest.

This is very often true. The difference in exposure usually varies (IMX) by approximately half-a-stop. This is also backed-up by a Circ. Pola. filter's given Exposure Compensation Factor as varying from +1.0 to +1.5 EV. Useful to bear in mind if the camera being used has TTL metering.

Just sometimes, however, other factors can come into play which mean that it's impossible to tell which orientation will work 'best'. Here's one pair as an example. As it happens these frames were pretty much the first frames I took when testing-out the orientation possibilities of the Series VII 13370 / 12504 Hood system (on a 35mm Summilux v2) alluded to in post #7 when being used with the M-D Typ-262 as this camera has no screen therefore no way to verify the snap when out'n'about.

As such these are essentially SOOC and, as they were shot purely for testing purposes, 'Artistic Merit' wasn't even remotely considered. Exposure was as indicated by the meter and Exposure Value with the TTL meter of both shots was exactly the same. First shot taken with 'Yellow Dot' positioned at 9 (or 3) o'clock. Second with Y-Dot at 12 (or 6) o'clock;

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I believe that the relative brightness of the sky in the first image has been equalled by the relative brightness of the ship and its reflection in the second hence the same exposure for both frames; the metering system employed by this camera being very much centre-weighted / average.

Philip.

Edited August 13, 2023 by pippy

[Bobonli]

Oh, wow the camo pattern on that ship is pretty awesome, as is the history behind its development.  Thank you for your detailed responses.

[Bronco McBeast]

1 hour ago, rramesh said:

When you rotate the polarising filter, at maximum polarising effect, the film speed indicated in the M viewfinder will be lowest.

This is an iffy method, at best. Many planes of in the image are at different angles, and choosing the best maximum effect is only judged by seeing it. Also, depending in the color, annihilating a reflection can actually “increase the film speed”,  not lower it.

All in all, iffy at best.

[pedaes]

49 minutes ago, pippy said:

Philip.

You have really provided a very comprehensive answer - hope it's appreciated!

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Look here: Leica M

[J S H]

8 hours ago, pippy said:

The 13356 is a newer version of the old 13352 swing-out-Pola and the former came out (AFAIK) in 2005. The 13352 had been around since 1939(!) and could be used with everything from the 35mm f2 through various 50mm and 90mm lenses right up to the 135mm f4.

The earlier 13352 was released in the days when the majority of 'normal' focal-length Leitz M-mount lenses could be had with a 39mm filter thread. After the turn of the millenia, however, there were more and more Leica lenses produced where the filter thread was 46mm hence the updated filter/hood. As such the 13356 has filter-rings to allow for use on both E39 and E46 style lenses and the use of the term 'Universal Polarizing Filter' in its description.

Philip.

I use the newest version. There is also a 49mm ring for use with the 135 APO, 28 1.4 and other larger lenses. I will say that the swing out polarizer adds a little bit of vignetting wide open when used on the 35 FLE, so be aware if using with that lens. otherwise, I never noticed any glaring issues with 15+ lenses over the years, but I have definitely not tried with every lens. It's a great addition and probably more useful for normal focal lengths, in general. Even with a 35, you can get an uneven polarization effect in the sky, depending on the position of the sun.