New Q3 with defective sensor?

[Celledral]

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Wanted to see if anyone else has the same issue with the new Q3. When shooting at 3200ISO or above I get a star field of hot pixels, especially in the shadows.

I was hoping my first Leica would be trouble free, but will probably setup a repair with Leica when it’s convenient. 

Yes I know, it looks like astrophotography  

 

 

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[jaapv]

How long was your exposure 

Did you switch LENR off? If you expose a few seconds without LENR this is normal. 

[Celledral]

LENR is off. Shooting normally at 1600-3200 will have visible hot pixels. 125-250 shutter. 

Kinda sucks to be so hyped about this camera then have it all crashing down. Running the latest firmware as well. 

 

Samples below shot at 1600. 

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[Kim Dahl]

hot pixel = is it dead pixel? Then it must be a censor who should not have gone through the quality control. 🤔🙄

[paul chiu]

Have you tried pixel remap?  It could have experienced solar effects on the sensors during transport from Germany. I know this very thing happened with my Sony ZV-E1 camera. I had tons of hot spots shooting at low ISOs with videos at night, literally everywhere, not just dark scenes.  Then, after just one pixel remap, they were all gone.

 

[LocalHero1953]

That just looks like noise to me. I don't have the Q3, but the Q2 noise patterns in low light or lifted dark shadows have that white speckly appearance.

Are you shooting just DNG or DNG+JPG? If the former, then your zoomed-in screen will be displaying a low res JPG. Have you downloaded the images and checked the DNG on a monitor?

What was the scene you shot in the first image, and what shutter speed did you use?

I'm not saying this is a good result, but it may be normal for the Q3, rather than a faulty sensor. It's worth downloading various exposed images and looking at them in Lightroom/C1 before coming to a conclusion.

Edited June 19, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[BobsFirstLeica]

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My Unfortunate Test:

This thread is disturbing to say the least so while sitting and cogitating I pulled out the Q3, took off the lens cap and used it as a subject and was saddened to see I could reproduce the issue with downloaded Jpegs and DNG's  This is something I would hope Leica will address quickly.  In fact, with other's encouragement I may start my own thread punctuating the importance of this thread!  Please advise since I am a relatively recent Leica owner but did not see this kind of behavior on my Q2.  I tested a variety of ISO's and lighting.  It seems the lighter the subject the less "hot" pixels (don't know if they are)  I will post more since the file size is limited to 2.44MB.

ISO 6400

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ISO 800

I will upload an interesting ISO 12800 pair in the next post

[BobsFirstLeica]

And ISO 1600

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ISO 3200

[BobsFirstLeica]

And 2 at ISO 12500.  I took the first underexposed so more shadow, the second with more light.  The one in the shadow showed sparkles the second did not.  This inconsistent but reproducible problem must be addressed.  If others disagree please comment.  I will reiterate, the image anomalies are present in exactly the same positions in both OOC jpegs and DNG's.  And this occurs with High ISO NR either on or off. Also the shutter speed was between 1/5s to 1/250s for all the images.  Lastly, the front of the lens cap was free of dust as can be attested with the images.  The front of the cap was not touched during all these images.

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and with a tad more light same ISO Nice and clean

[BobsFirstLeica]

As a reference point here is the entire scene.  A tripod would have made no difference.  And, yes, it is not a lab bench, but the images in the previous posts speak for themselves.  In practical terms, at least for these cursory tests, the speckles could be dealt with in post.  But if someone wants to use the Q3 for any astro or any critical macro with shadows at a higher ISO, I don't know if the cam could be trusted to accurately show the scene.  Mind you, I really like the Q3 and will happily use it.  Just hope Leica sees the issue in this thread and does something soon.

Bob

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[paul chiu]

32 minutes ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

My Unfortunate Test:

This thread is disturbing to say the least so while sitting and cogitating I pulled out the Q3, took off the lens cap and used it as a subject and was saddened to see I could reproduce the issue with downloaded Jpegs and DNG's  This is something I would hope Leica will address quickly.  In fact, with other's encouragement I may start my own thread punctuating the importance of this thread!  Please advise since I am a relatively recent Leica owner but did not see this kind of behavior on my Q2.  I tested a variety of ISO's and lighting.  It seems the lighter the subject the less "hot" pixels (don't know if they are)  I will post more since the file size is limited to 2.44MB.

ISO 6400

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ISO 800

I will upload an interesting ISO 12800 pair in the next post

Have you tried using another camera under these lighting conditions at said ISO?

[BobsFirstLeica]

6 minutes ago, paul chiu said:

Have you tried using another camera under these lighting conditions at said ISO?

Not yet but I can.  Will need to do it later though.

[pgh]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:10 AM, Celledral said:

Wanted to see if anyone else has the same issue with the new Q3. When shooting at 3200ISO or above I get a star field of hot pixels, especially in the shadows.

I was hoping my first Leica would be trouble free, but will probably setup a repair with Leica when it’s convenient. 

Yes I know, it looks like astrophotography  

I can't speak to your specific issue but the best way to get a trouble free Leica is not to buy a new model and to buy it used from a dealer who has put it through its paces and will accept a quick and easy return. 

I've purchased three new digital Leicas over the years. Not one came from the factory as it should have. The flaws have been cosmetic, hardware related and software related. The first one I bought was Leica's fault - the second two - as the term goes - shame on me. I still love and shoot primarily Leica but won't ever buy a new one and won't ever buy a brand new model because I get cameras to use a lot not to tinker with and explore what cool new problems they can have. 

[M11 for me]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb pgh:

I can't speak to your specific issue but the best way to get a trouble free Leica is not to buy a new model and to buy it used from a dealer who has put it through its paces and will accept a quick and easy return. 

I've purchased three new digital Leicas over the years. Not one came from the factory as it should have. The flaws have been cosmetic, hardware related and software related. The first one I bought was Leica's fault - the second two - as the term goes - shame on me. I still love and shoot primarily Leica but won't ever buy a new one and won't ever buy a brand new model because I get cameras to use a lot not to tinker with and explore what cool new problems they can have. 

First we should find out what is wrong with the images above. Did our friends here buy their Q3 for shooting such subjects? Would be interesting to see some real life images shot with one of those cameras. 

[LocalHero1953]

@BobsFirstLeica - I can't see the problem you are trying to highlight. Your images show nothing like those of the OP. I see noise in your images which, as expected, is greater in underexposed shadows and at high ISO.

I am not trying to say there is no problem visible in your images, but I'd appreciate more pointers.

[paul chiu]

35 minutes ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

Not yet but I can.  Will need to do it later though.

That would help for sure.

In the meantime, the photos of the cap you posted at ISO 800 to 6400 look pretty normal to me.  I have the Q as well as the Q2, and they are not that clean pass 3200.  Unlike my current Sony sensors in the A1 or A7 series, where some with dual ISOs can be pristine at 12,800.

Take a look at benchmark tests for ISO at DPReview here for the Q2.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/leica-q2-review/5

You can compare Q2 with itself at ISO 50 through 50000, pick a spot similar to the cap.

Hope this helps. 

[BobsFirstLeica]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

@BobsFirstLeica - I can't see the problem you are trying to highlight. Your images show nothing like those of the OP. I see noise in your images which, as expected, is greater in underexposed shadows and at high ISO.

I am not trying to say there is no problem visible in your images, but I'd appreciate more pointers.

Look at the left line of the "L" in Leica in all the images.  There are some illuminated pixels that should not be there. The ISO 800 image is clean, the others not.  When I have a moment, if you need, I will circle the areas.

Bob

[Daniel C.1975]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb BobsFirstLeica:

Look at the left line of the "L" in Leica in all the images.  There are some illuminated pixels that should not be there. The ISO 800 image is clean, the others not.  When I have a moment, if you need, I will circle the areas.

Bob

I see some change in lighting from picture to picture, and on the iso1600 picture a reflection of light on the edge of the stamping - that's all I can see. Sorry. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[LocalHero1953]

28 minutes ago, BobsFirstLeica said:

Look at the left line of the "L" in Leica in all the images.  There are some illuminated pixels that should not be there. The ISO 800 image is clean, the others not.  When I have a moment, if you need, I will circle the areas.

Bob

Like Daniel, I see normal behaviour with light reflecting off the edge of the embossing. The Q2 has this ugly noise with white speckles as well, which increases as you increase ISO/lift deep shadows. It doesn't make it nice, but you might still be disappointed if you got a replacement.

In a quick & dirty test with my Q2 I was unable to reproduce the effect with my lens cap, probably because it was by different, more even light. I could easily reproduce the OP's "star field" of speckly white noise

[BobsFirstLeica]

10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Like Daniel, I see normal behaviour with light reflecting off the edge of the embossing. The Q2 has this ugly noise with white speckles as well, which increases as you increase ISO/lift deep shadows. It doesn't make it nice, but you might still be disappointed if you got a replacement.

In a quick & dirty test with my Q2 I was unable to reproduce the effect with my lens cap, probably because it was by different, more even light. I could easily reproduce the OP's "star field" of speckly white noise

I wanted to use the A7R5 but I don't have a macro lens to get as close up as I would have liked.  Tried using the 50mm/1.2GM, my favorite event lens, but because I tried to reproduce the conditions this morning, it was not possible.

In fairness to all, I need to do a more exhaustive test "on the bench" to confirm or refute my initial findings.  I have not seen any of this in my normal shooting since having received the Q3 2 weeks ago.  All my images have have great IQ, dynamic range, color depth, and, thus, have been much to my liking.  In fact 2 days ago I was shooting a harpsichord for a friend (he wants to sell it) in the corner of a room with lots of shadows but on a tripod at lower ISO's.  I saw nothing resembling what the OP saw or even the rough tests I did this morning.  

When I do have time I will look at light angles, intensity, etc.  But the fact remains, under certain circumstances, there "may" be a pixel issue.  I emphasize "may" because I could be wrong.  I've been shooting for a very long time and shoot Nikon and, for the last few years, Sony professionally.  I don't have much credibility on this forum and don't wish to tarnish myself at this point.  So, bear with me and I appreciate everyone's testing with their Q's and their results.  If I have more to report I will.

Bob