New Classic: Leica SL2 Now in Silver

[satijntje]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Sold my SL2-s and placed the order for this silver beauty.
I had no other choice 🙂

[goodbokeh]

1 hour ago, satijntje said:

Sold my SL2-s and placed the order for this silver beauty.
I had no other choice 🙂

Satijntje, I just received my Silver SL2, it's even more beautiful in hand than the photos let on. If you use the Leica M-L adapter the silver model goes really well with the body and compliments either the silver or black M lenses.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[satijntje]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

Satijntje, I just received my Silver SL2, it's even more beautiful in hand than the photos let on. If you use the Leica M-L adapter the silver model goes really well with the body and compliments either the silver or black M lenses.

Thanks for the info.
I will indeed try to get a silver adapter and a second hand 50mm APO-Summicron in silver. 
Camera is on its way to me and will arrive tomorrow……
Until I have the silver APO, I will have to do with a silver 50mm rigid summicron.
I found this on YouTube from Bobby Tonelli:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Sohail]

6 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Satijntje, I just received my Silver SL2, it's even more beautiful in hand than the photos let on. If you use the Leica M-L adapter the silver model goes really well with the body and compliments either the silver or black M lenses.

True! Much better in hand.

[satijntje]

Gerade eben schrieb Sohail:

True! Much better in hand.

And it seems limited to 1000 pcs.

[goodbokeh]

15 minutes ago, satijntje said:

And it seems limited to 1000 pcs.

Yes, just like the SL2-s Reporter was limited 1000 pcs also. 

[goodbokeh]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I noticed today a new updated photo of the L-Mount Alliance family. Our Silver SL2 is now the tip of the arrow.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[o2mpx]

It's a great marketing move to boost end of life viability; bought the Q2 Ghost Edition 6 months ago knowing the Q3 is coming out without any regrets driven by the limited production run pitch, and felt not having 60MP isn't an issue given Q2 isn't primary camera.

OTOH, truly wish Leica will address camera weight of the SL3. Sold the SL2 but kept the 16-35/24-90 zooms while moving to the Hasselblad XD2, which weighs less than the SL2 with visibly better resolution and detail. If the SL3 ends up at same or more weight than the SL2, will likely hit pause.

[goodbokeh]

8 hours ago, o2mpx said:

It's a great marketing move to boost end of life viability; bought the Q2 Ghost Edition 6 months ago knowing the Q3 is coming out without any regrets driven by the limited production run pitch, and felt not having 60MP isn't an issue given Q2 isn't primary camera.

OTOH, truly wish Leica will address camera weight of the SL3. Sold the SL2 but kept the 16-35/24-90 zooms while moving to the Hasselblad XD2, which weighs less than the SL2 with visibly better resolution and detail. If the SL3 ends up at same or more weight than the SL2, will likely hit pause.

o2mpx, I have the 60MP sensor with my Sony A7R5, it's fine but not the big jump in real IQ many here are expecting with the SL3. I was attracted to the Silver SL2 because of the limited production beauty. Also, what attracted me was the SL2 sensor does not have PDAF pixels which can give some nasty little surprises like PDAF pixel grid flare and banding. Well, we all love the next new thing, but aspects valuable in IQ will be lost when the 47MP sensor goes back to the barn. Cherish your Q2 Ghost, I wish I had one.

Yes, you may want to hit pause on SLs but for a different reason than you state. Honestly, I don't think a Lumix S5 sized SL3 is going to balance better with your 16-35/24-90 zooms. Those lenses are going to become very front heavy with a SL3 body the size of the Lumix S5, it's just not optimally designed to carry that lens mass. I bought the Silver SL2 as a kit with the Leica 24-70 and it is comfortable and handles well for me. Similar enough in dimensions to my A7R5 with 24-70 GMII that either fit in my smaller Billingham F/8 bag for a day out.

I have digital medium format also, the Fuji 100S, and we both know the focal length and lens speed limitations that format has, but they are great in their defined roles. But there are those PDAF pixels again...

Edited July 14, 2023 by goodbokeh

[LBJ2]

On 7/12/2023 at 6:45 PM, goodbokeh said:

Satijntje, I just received my Silver SL2, it's even more beautiful in hand than the photos let on. If you use the Leica M-L adapter the silver model goes really well with the body and compliments either the silver or black M lenses.

Congratulations! Is this your first SL camera experience ? 

[goodbokeh]

53 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Congratulations! Is this your first SL camera experience ? 

Thanks for the congratulations LBJ2 🙂  Yes, it is my first SL camera. I'm enjoying it very much, so far mostly doing tests and getting familiar the controls. An unplanned event occured when I was doing a head on head with the bundled Leica 24-70 vs my Sony 24-70 GM II and I discovered the GM II isn't all it should be. Today I sent it off for service to Sony's Precision Camera Repair facility. I hope they don't say it's in specifications, the Leica at the 35-70mm focal lengths was clearly superior to the GM II on the right side.

With the SL2 not having EFCS I've been doing very careful tripod based testing of the mechanical and electronic shutter modes looking hard for mechanical shutter shock. With six lenses tested (4 M-mount, 2 L-mount ) I've detected miniscule resolution differences between the two modes. The differences are so small and hard to see (viewed @ 300%) on my 27" 5K iMac that they come and go without much pattern and only at shutter speeds 1/160 and below. I'm pleased shutter shock has not been an issue, I was concerned it would be and in the past have been critical of Leica for not providing EFCS, I was wrong.

Although I don't plan to use it much (if at all) I will test out my wife's Sigma 150-600 to ground truth the claims that mechanical shutter shock exists at any and all shutter speeds and only the SL2's electronic shutter can be used with that lens. I'll do that test very carefully. I use the Sony 100-400 GM and 200-600 G lenses on my A1 and A7R5 and I know how to handle long glass.

Thanks again for the congratulations LBJ2 🙂

[o2mpx]

Goodbokeh, strong points indeed. You’re absolutely right given the hefty SL zooms, it’ll need a body of commensurate bulk to balance. However, there’s less justification owing a SL2 complement with zooms while having a X2D setup. 

To be honest, I’m monitoring used SL2 prices, perhaps further dropping when SL3 emerges, thinking there might be a strong use case for a SL2 with IBIS and EVF body for my M lenses. 

 

 

[goodbokeh]

23 minutes ago, o2mpx said:

Goodbokeh, strong points indeed. You’re absolutely right given the hefty SL zooms, it’ll need a body of commensurate bulk to balance. However, there’s less justification owing a SL2 complement with zooms while having a X2D setup. 

To be honest, I’m monitoring used SL2 prices, perhaps further dropping when SL3 emerges, thinking there might be a strong use case for a SL2 with IBIS and EVF body for my M lenses. 

 

 

That sounds like a very good plan o2mpx. You know the two things that irritate me with the 100S is how careful I have to be avoiding PDAF sensor flare and the need to stop down that extra stop (compared to full frame) for adequate depth of field. Often I need to go to f/11 or beyond. The diffraction at those small stops has dropped that beautiful 102 MP sensor down by half or more and that is frustrating. 

[LBJ2]

9 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Thanks for the congratulations LBJ2 🙂  Yes, it is my first SL camera. I'm enjoying it very much, so far mostly doing tests and getting familiar the controls. An unplanned event occured when I was doing a head on head with the bundled Leica 24-70 vs my Sony 24-70 GM II and I discovered the GM II isn't all it should be. Today I sent it off for service to Sony's Precision Camera Repair facility. I hope they don't say it's in specifications, the Leica at the 35-70mm focal lengths was clearly superior to the GM II on the right side.

With the SL2 not having EFCS I've been doing very careful tripod based testing of the mechanical and electronic shutter modes looking hard for mechanical shutter shock. With six lenses tested (4 M-mount, 2 L-mount ) I've detected miniscule resolution differences between the two modes. The differences are so small and hard to see (viewed @ 300%) on my 27" 5K iMac that they come and go without much pattern and only at shutter speeds 1/160 and below. I'm pleased shutter shock has not been an issue, I was concerned it would be and in the past have been critical of Leica for not providing EFCS, I was wrong.

Although I don't plan to use it much (if at all) I will test out my wife's Sigma 150-600 to ground truth the claims that mechanical shutter shock exists at any and all shutter speeds and only the SL2's electronic shutter can be used with that lens. I'll do that test very carefully. I use the Sony 100-400 GM and 200-600 G lenses on my A1 and A7R5 and I know how to handle long glass.

Thanks again for the congratulations LBJ2 🙂

Welcome to Club SL2!

I see you acted quickly and already in the thick of it making sure everything checks out asap. (Sorry to hear about having to send back your GM for adjustment.) I look forward to your test results for your wife's Sigma 150-600 lens on the SL2 as well. I also shoot with the GM 100-400 and G 200-600, so no plans for me to buy the Sigma, but I am curious to know your findings. 

I'll reframe from gushing too much about Leica SL APO primes on the SL2 for now...at least until you sort things out with your new SL2. But if you do decide to keep the SL2, there can be a strong allure to match that camera with some of the best optics on the planet--at least one Leica SL APO prime 😜

[Chaemono]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

o2mpx, I have the 60MP sensor with my Sony A7R5, it's fine but not the big jump in real IQ many here are expecting with the SL3.

60 MP SL3 sensor could show a bigger IQ jump. The reason that the α7R5 doesn’t could be that the α7R4 also had 60 MP.

vor 21 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

…I was attracted to the Silver SL2 because of the limited production beauty.

Leica makes extra money with limited production beauties.

vor 21 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

Also, what attracted me was the SL2 sensor does not have PDAF pixels which can give some nasty little surprises like PDAF pixel grid flare and banding.

I checked the SL2-S vs. the LUMIX S5II. The PDAF pixels didn’t show any little surprises from ISO 100 and onwards in pushed files or otherwise.

vor 21 Stunden schrieb goodbokeh:

But there are those PDAF pixels again...

It’s a non-issue from what I can see in the S5II.

[goodbokeh]

2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

60 MP SL3 sensor could show a bigger IQ jump. The reason that the α7R5 doesn’t could be that the α7R4 also had 60 MP.

Leica makes extra money with limited production beauties.

I checked the SL2-S vs. the LUMIX S5II. The PDAF pixels didn’t show any little surprises from ISO 100 and onwards in pushed files or otherwise.

It’s a non-issue from what I can see in the S5II.

Chaemono, I don't understand your reasoning about the A7R4 & R5 sharing the same 60 MP sensor and that having a positive IQ effect on the SL3? They will all (presumably) have the same 60 MP BSI sensor, just the SL top glass will be different for L & M lenses.

The Silver SL2 is limited to 1000 units and I paid the same list price as the black model here in the US. Now, if there are Leica Summer SL sales coming up I expect the Silver model will not be eligible, just like the SL2-S Reporter (also 1000 units) wasn't eligible for Leica SL sales last year.

The PDAF pixel issue that is most egregious is sensor flare when shooting backlit. It varies with intensity and the lens used. For me it's the worst with my 100S and my 30 & 50mm lenses. But it also causes problems with my A7R5, less so with my A1 but it's there too. I've not seen sensor flare with my Q2 or my my wife's Lumix S1R, both having the 47 MP no-PDAF sensor. Watch carefully for it when you get your SL3, it will look like a square patterned rainbow grid overlaying the normal flare artifact. It ruins the photo and sometimes you don't see it until you're home editing photos on the computer.

[goodbokeh]

3 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Welcome to Club SL2!

I see you acted quickly and already in the thick of it making sure everything checks out asap. (Sorry to hear about having to send back your GM for adjustment.) I look forward to your test results for your wife's Sigma 150-600 lens on the SL2 as well. I also shoot with the GM 100-400 and G 200-600, so no plans for me to buy the Sigma, but I am curious to know your findings. 

I'll reframe from gushing too much about Leica SL APO primes on the SL2 for now...at least until you sort things out with your new SL2. But if you do decide to keep the SL2, there can be a strong allure to match that camera with some of the best optics on the planet--at least one Leica SL APO prime 😜

Yes, from your and Robb's posts I sense an APO prime is needed to fully realize the SL2's potential. The bank account has to heal a bit for now, but I do have thoughts of either a 75 or 90 for the SL2. In the past I have found a moderate telephoto often helps my photo productivity. Also, the 75 or 90 would be a nice SL pairing for stand off photos with the Q2 doing closer quarter work on street-travel. I found the Sony with the 24-70 drew too much attention/concern for street during my last trip to Mallorca, Spain. I don't know maybe I'm too sensitive about people's reactions but even Busse got a few nasty looks that spoiled photos using her iPhone...We're going to the South of France next Spring and I expect photo attitudes there to be even more of an issue, I hope I'm mistaken.

[Chaemono]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb goodbokeh:

[…]

The PDAF pixel issue that is most egregious is sensor flare when shooting backlit. It varies with intensity and the lens used. For me it's the worst with my 100S and my 30 & 50mm lenses. But it also causes problems with my A7R5, less so with my A1 but it's there too. I've not seen sensor flare with my Q2 or my my wife's Lumix S1R, both having the 47 MP no-PDAF sensor. Watch carefully for it when you get your SL3, it will look like a square patterned rainbow grid overlaying the normal flare artifact. It ruins the photo and sometimes you don't see it until you're home editing photos on the computer.

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/on-sensor-pdaf-misconceptions/

“The circumstances that cause those stripes require lens flare, but the stripes don’t appear in all cases where there is such flare.”

The only SL prime lens that flares is the 50 Summilux-SL. The LUMIX S Pro 50/1.4 doesn’t flare. One could revert to that.

“PDAF banding is different. PDAF banding presents as dark stripes in some – but by no means all – scenes with bright elements and deep shadows. Usually, you must push the shadows to see the banding.”

It ain’t there with the S5II.

“The PDAF pixels are created during the “topping” phase of sensor fabrication, at the same time as the color filter array (CFA) is applied. They are not a property of the underlying silicon. In order to take advantage of OSPDAF, the underlying silicon must be prepped for it, but if the topping has no OSPDAF pixels, but rather a plain old Bayer CFA, there won’t be any weird reflections and no striping, and thus no need for the software that causes the banding.”

So what’s true for the α7R5 won’t necessarily be true for the SL3.

“One last misunderstanding: that the PDAF pixels visibly soften the image. It is true that there is some interpolation across columns in the rows with PDAF pixels. But those rows are fairly widely separated (in the GFX 100, PDAF pixels occur in 18-row spacing), and most columns don’t have PDAF pixels. In addition, the PDAF pixels are usually not in the green channels, which carry most of the sharpness information. The blue channel carries the least, and many cameras with OSPDAF steal from the blue channels for that reason. I’ve certainly seen cameras where you could tell where the PDAF pixels were by looking at noise, but I’ve never seen one where sharpness loss gave away the game, even with demanding targets and lab conditions.”

The SL prime lenses are so sharp across the frame that soft images are the least of one’s worries when using them wide open.

[goodbokeh]

36 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/on-sensor-pdaf-misconceptions/

“The circumstances that cause those stripes require lens flare, but the stripes don’t appear in all cases where there is such flare.”

The only SL prime lens that flares is the 50 Summilux-SL. The LUMIX S Pro 50/1.4 doesn’t flare. One could revert to that.

“PDAF banding is different. PDAF banding presents as dark stripes in some – but by no means all – scenes with bright elements and deep shadows. Usually, you must push the shadows to see the banding.”

It ain’t there with the S5II.

“The PDAF pixels are created during the “topping” phase of sensor fabrication, at the same time as the color filter array (CFA) is applied. They are not a property of the underlying silicon. In order to take advantage of OSPDAF, the underlying silicon must be prepped for it, but if the topping has no OSPDAF pixels, but rather a plain old Bayer CFA, there won’t be any weird reflections and no striping, and thus no need for the software that causes the banding.”

So what’s true for the α7R5 won’t necessarily be true for the SL3.

“One last misunderstanding: that the PDAF pixels visibly soften the image. It is true that there is some interpolation across columns in the rows with PDAF pixels. But those rows are fairly widely separated (in the GFX 100, PDAF pixels occur in 18-row spacing), and most columns don’t have PDAF pixels. In addition, the PDAF pixels are usually not in the green channels, which carry most of the sharpness information. The blue channel carries the least, and many cameras with OSPDAF steal from the blue channels for that reason. I’ve certainly seen cameras where you could tell where the PDAF pixels were by looking at noise, but I’ve never seen one where sharpness loss gave away the game, even with demanding targets and lab conditions.”

The SL prime lenses are so sharp across the frame that soft images are the least of one’s worries when using them wide open.

Chaemono, your linked Jim Kasson article quotes are not unified in context or theme on the PDAF issues I spoke of. 

In the article he wrote about PDAF banding issues present in Nikon, Sony and (given the article is four years old) "prospectively" the Fuji GFX 100. Four years later I can confirm that PDAF Striping and Banding exists with my Fuji 100S, Sony A7R5 and A1. The article's discussion on PDAF Striping (that I wrote about earlier as PDAF sensor flare) is the biggest issue for me. BTW, both my 100S and A7R5 share the exact same Sony sensor design that the 60MP SL3 will have.

You say what is true for the A7R5 won't necessarily be true for the SL3. We don't have the SL3 to test so of course there is that unknown. But that unknown is in no way a guarantee the SL3 will be free of PDAF problems, not even close. What Jim Kasson's article unscores and what my own experience with three High MP PDAF cameras has shown is it's a very complicated issue bound and restricted by physical laws of light and silicon.

I haven't sold off my PDAF cameras and don't intend to. I wanted to get the Silver SL2 now because it's a beautiful camera with a special kind of high MP sensor free of PDAF artifacts. Sadly, I also know it won't be available for much longer.

Chaemono, enjoy your future SL3 but please keep an open mind that PDAF pixel artifacts do exist, so that you're better able to work around them when they come up.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[satijntje]

Happy that I kept my silver M glasses.
That new SL2 in silverchrom looks amazing.
Very happy with it.
No need for a 100MP SL3 🙂

Maybe I exchange the black L-M Adapter with a silver one?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!