M4-P Light Leak

[reiniger]

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Dear forum,

I bought a recently serviced M4-P from a Leica dealer and after developing the first films I unfortunately noticed that there were strange light leaks on the film. There are about 6-7 frames per film on which the incidence of light can be seen. The camera was in really good, almost new condition when it was purchased and was purchased directly from the Leica Store a few weeks ago.

Does anyone have any experience of where this kind of light could come from? It seems as if the error is always on the first picture after a longer "shelf time".

The camera is now under warranty with the service but I would be interested to know if anyone has ever had this type of light leak?

Best regards

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[jakontil]

9 minutes ago, reiniger said:

Dear forum,

I bought a recently serviced M4-P from a Leica dealer and after developing the first films I unfortunately noticed that there were strange light leaks on the film. There are about 6-7 frames per film on which the incidence of light can be seen. The camera was in really good, almost new condition when it was purchased and was purchased directly from the Leica Store a few weeks ago.

Does anyone have any experience of where this kind of light could come from? It seems as if the error is always on the first picture after a longer "shelf time".

The camera is now under warranty with the service but I would be interested to know if anyone has ever had this type of light leak?

Best regards

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Yeah this type of leaks is common with film M, the light seal usually the culprit, i suffered mildly not so long ago on my M2 

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[a.noctilux]

In your place, I'd go to the dealer to show them the film.

Strange that the leaks are not at the very edge.

You did not state if it's at the bottom or top of the film.

Remember that the leak could be from the rear door or baseplate junction (not light proof enough),

or even inside the chamber.

like here in my M-D, more here, in this thread

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[TomB_tx]

Yes - had similar leak develop on my original M6 after many years. The lower curtain light seal needs replacement. Light coming up from under the curtain leaves a shadow at the very bottom of the frame from the frame mask.

I've heard of this most on the early M6 until they changed the material of the seal. 

 

[Huss]

You just bought it from a dealer?  Return it.  I wouldn't deal w the headache of fixing this.  And as you bought it from a Leica Store, I'm sure you paid top dollar.

Last year I returned a just serviced M4 to a Leica Store because the shutter was defective.  I too paid the premium from the Leica Store, but did not get the premium.

[reiniger]

@Huss, they stated that they wont refund me but will take care of it until 100% fixed... i hope that the next film will show the result, although the error is not easy to reproduce... lets see

@all the error is always on the "Typo side" of the GOLD 200 film. Idk if its up or downside in the camera

[Huss]

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32 minutes ago, reiniger said:

@Huss, they stated that they wont refund me but will take care of it until 100% fixed... i hope that the next film will show the result, although the error is not easy to reproduce... lets see

 

If you bought it using your credit card, do a charge back.  They sold you a defective item. I would not stand for that.  What Leica Store is this?

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, reiniger said:

@Huss, they stated that they wont refund me but will take care of it until 100% fixed... i hope that the next film will show the result, although the error is not easy to reproduce... lets see

@all the error is always on the "Typo side" of the GOLD 200 film. Idk if its up or downside in the camera

Not sure about consumer law in Germany, but you were clearly sold an usable camera, so you should be good for refund if you want one. 

Good luck and hope you get the outcome you (not the store) wants.

PS Remember image is inverted by lens - so 'top' will be bottom in camera.

Edited June 12 by pedaes

[250swb]

1 hour ago, reiniger said:

@Huss, they stated that they wont refund me but will take care of it until 100% fixed... i hope that the next film will show the result, although the error is not easy to reproduce... lets see

@all the error is always on the "Typo side" of the GOLD 200 film. Idk if its up or downside in the camera

If you can get the dealer to have it fully serviced at their expense it’s going to be a good deal in the long run. I mean it should work according to the description but obviously there were other problems, and this will be the possibility with any other cameras. So maybe think that you’ve bought it at a premium .price but are now getting it fully serviced. Just make sure you get it back before the warranty runs out or ask that the warranty starts again when you get it back.

Edited June 12 by 250swb

[Huss]

21 hours ago, 250swb said:

If you can get the dealer to have it fully serviced at their expense it’s going to be a good deal in the long run. I mean it should work according to the description but obviously there were other problems, and this will be the possibility with any other cameras. So maybe think that you’ve bought it at a premium .price but are now getting it fully serviced. Just make sure you get it back before the warranty runs out or ask that the warranty starts again when you get it back.

He already said it was fully serviced.  Part of the reason why he paid a premium.

I would complain to my credit card company and get them to charge it back.  I wouldn't stand for this - he paid in good faith, the dealer reneged on that.

It is very easy to find a decent M4-P, or pretty much any other normal (i.e not special edition) M camera for sale.  Why deal with this mess?

[earleygallery]

If you are otherwise happy with the camera then let them fix it. It's just the inconvenience of waiting for the repair but as we know you could get this with a new Leica!

The only thing I'd say is light leaks can be hard to track down, I've seen others here have several attempts at repairers 'fixing' them until they're OK, so when you get it back check it out by shining a bright light at every part of it and using it out in the sunshine as much as possible then getting the film developed.

[250swb]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

He already said it was fully serviced.  Part of the reason why he paid a premium.

I would complain to my credit card company and get them to charge it back.  I wouldn't stand for this - he paid in good faith, the dealer reneged on that.

It is very easy to find a decent M4-P, or pretty much any other normal (i.e not special edition) M camera for sale.  Why deal with this mess?

He says it was ‘serviced’ so it could have been just a CLA, which as you know wouldn’t find a shutter seal leak.

[plaidshirts]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:40 AM, reiniger said:

@Huss, they stated that they wont refund me but will take care of it until 100% fixed... i hope that the next film will show the result, although the error is not easy to reproduce... lets see

@all the error is always on the "Typo side" of the GOLD 200 film. Idk if its up or downside in the camera

So, they’re going to hold on to the camera AND your money too? Doesn’t seem like a fair trade to me.

I hope you don’t go through what Huss went through with his new M6 and they find the problem quickly. 

[Huss]

12 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

So, they’re going to hold on to the camera AND your money too? Doesn’t seem like a fair trade to me.

I hope you don’t go through what Huss went through with his new M6 and they find the problem quickly. 

The problem w my M6 was I bought it from England shipped to me in the USA.  If I bought it locally I would have just returned it immediately for a refund.

Reininger bought his camera locally it seems.  The seller was not forthright with the condition of the camera.  I would demand a refund, and do it through my credit card (I assume that is how he paid).  I would not accept their refusal - frankly that is not honest.  They sold him a defective camera described as a camera in perfect working condition.

But that's just me.

[lekitr]

My M4-p had the same problem although not that often.  Had it cla'd by the legendary Larry Smith and that didn't solved the problem.  I asked for new curtains and he refused.  Few years later I sent it to a supposedly super tech in California who didn't fix it.  I finally sold it as I was assured by these tech that it was normal.  I found the answer at the link below.  The best info I've seen.  By the way I also sold two M4 and bought two M-A, one black and one chrome.  Hopefully I'm over with tech for a few years.  Good luck.

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/post/leica-m-light-leaks

[jakontil]

8 hours ago, lekitr said:

My M4-p had the same problem although not that often.  Had it cla'd by the legendary Larry Smith and that didn't solved the problem.  I asked for new curtains and he refused.  Few years later I sent it to a supposedly super tech in California who didn't fix it.  I finally sold it as I was assured by these tech that it was normal.  I found the answer at the link below.  The best info I've seen.  By the way I also sold two M4 and bought two M-A, one black and one chrome.  Hopefully I'm over with tech for a few years.  Good luck.

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/post/leica-m-light-leaks

Yeap this was what happened to my m2-r, repaired by local tech, he told me, slight leaks after i advanced and it’s accumulating.. however i dont usually advance my film after each shots.. it was rarely happened but it did

the technician recorded me the video how it might leaks and now happily solved

[reiniger]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb jakontil:

Yeap this was what happened to my m2-r, repaired by local tech, he told me, slight leaks after i advanced and it’s accumulating.. however i dont usually advance my film after each shots.. it was rarely happened but it did

the technician recorded me the video how it might leaks and now happily solved

If I understand right, it wont happen when I dont advance after the shot and it sits without tension?

[250swb]

29 minutes ago, reiniger said:

If I understand right, it wont happen when I dont advance after the shot and it sits without tension?

There are better workarounds, like putting the lens cap on between shots, but it shouldn't happen at all, the camera needs a proper service not just a CLA.

[jakontil]

1 hour ago, reiniger said:

If I understand right, it wont happen when I dont advance after the shot and it sits without tension?

Yeah that might be it.. that’s what happened to my M2r and explained why it happened only occasionally as most of the time, i would only advance immediately right before each shoot

the leaks you showed somehow similar to mine, that at least we can probably narrow down where the leak is from 

some with stronger leaks than the others 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jakontil]

55 minutes ago, 250swb said:

There are better workarounds, like putting the lens cap on between shots, but it shouldn't happen at all, the camera needs a proper service not just a CLA.

Exactly what i’d do and now i can shoot with peace