Lightroom Classic update AI noise reduction

[Siriusone59]

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Just learned that the latest update for Lightroom Classic now has AI noise reduction.  V12.3 out today

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

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[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, Siriusone59 said:

Just learned that the latest update for Lightroom Classic now has AI noise reduction.  V12.3 out today

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

I have been using it for quite a while now (prerelease), and it works really well.

Another important feature was added: curves with masks!

[marchyman]

I'll probably be using masked curves more than noise reduction.   I'm happy to see that the histogram shown is only that of the masked portion of the image.  Nice.

[SrMi]

Relevant articles

Denoise demystified by Eric Chan

Incredible new AI noise reduction in LR / ACR by Greg Benz

[Ba Erv]

Unfortunately the new LR Denoise AI doesn't work with Leica's monochrome sensors.

[M11 for me]

That camera is probably not supported yet.

However: I have done a short test (3 different 12500 ISO images) and think that the new feature wirks very well. I treated the same 3 images with Topas AI. The Topas result is rather a mash. I will have to test more. But at first sight LR has done a good job.

I wonder: Who is the owner of Topas? It will be difficult in the future to sell that software.

[sometimesmaybe]

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3 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

Unfortunately the new LR Denoise AI doesn't work with Leica's monochrome sensors.

this is also the case with DxO. the explanation ive seen on the internet is that DxO needs the RGB in the bayer filter to do its thing. maybe the same basic tech is used by LR

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, M11 for me said:

That camera is probably not supported yet.

However: I have done a short test (3 different 12500 ISO images) and think that the new feature wirks very well. I treated the same 3 images with Topas AI. The Topas result is rather a mash. I will have to test more. But at first sight LR has done a good job.

I wonder: Who is the owner of Topas? It will be difficult in the future to sell that software.

Topaz Sharpen AI and Gigapixel are still doing a very good job and are not or only partially covered by Adobe's built-in functionality.

 

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

Unfortunately the new LR Denoise AI doesn't work with Leica's monochrome sensors.

I do not think DxO's and Adobe's AI NR will ever support monochrome sensors, as the algorithms seem to require Bayer or X-trans patterns (see the blog post in #1).

[M11 for me]

I red it somewhere that only Fuji and bayer sensors are supported (up to now).

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

Topaz Sharpen AI and Gigapixel are still doing a very good job and are not or only partially covered by Adobe's built-in functionality.

 

To what Iunderstand by now the setting options in Lightroom C are quite limited but the tool dies the job. With what I tested so far I will (probably) not use Topas Denoise AI anymore even though it has more options.

Does someone know if in ACR there is a sharpen AI function included that might come to Lightroom Classic? 

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

To what Iunderstand by now the setting options in Lightroom C are quite limited but the tool dies the job. With what I tested so far I will (probably) not use Topas Denoise AI anymore even though it has more options.

Does someone know if in ACR there is a sharpen AI function included that might come to Lightroom Classic? 

There is no AI Sharpen functionality in ACR.

[marchyman]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:27 AM, marchyman said:

I'll probably be using masked curves more than noise reduction.   I'm happy to see that the histogram shown is only that of the masked portion of the image.  Nice.

Sigh... next time test more before posting.  My statement that the histogram in the curves tool being only the masked portion seems to be incorrect.  It looked that way based upon the image I was checking, but more playing shows that statement to be incorrect.  Sorry for the misinformation.

[david strachan]

I'm disappointed the noise reduction is so slow on my computer...it's quite fast for numerous other programs on my Windows 10 platform with 16 GB memory and SSD drives.  I've never had to question it's speed.

Images take up to 45 minutes to process.

I think it is my Graphics card... but who knows...it's always so complicated 

...

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, david strachan said:

I'm disappointed the noise reduction is so slow on my computer...it's quite fast for numerous other programs on my Windows 10 platform with 16 GB memory and SSD drives.  I've never had to question it's speed.

Images take up to 45 minutes to process.

I think it is my Graphics card... but who knows...it's always so complicated 

...

I think it's your system. I tried it on one 24mp image and it quoted me 10s, and seemed to take that. I set it going on 190 images this morning and it quoted me about 20 minutes - I went away and did something else. I've now given it 410 images to play with - about 45 minutes! This is on a Windows 11 PC with 16gb memory, RTX2080 GPU.

I haven't yet redone older images I denoised in older LR Classic and Topaz AI, but the first results are impressive. I can't post them here (other people's small children), but they were very clear images taken indoors at ISO 10000-25000, though I wasn't lifting shadows that much.

A useful thing to know: I tried the process on DNG files that I had already edited for cropping, exposure, clarity etc, although I reduced my previous noise reduction to zero before starting. The new DNG files included the former edits. THis is handy to know if you want to go back through your archive to re-edit images.

The new DNG files are (by default) stacked with the old ones, with an amended name. Once I was sure I was happy with the new denoised files I tagged the new ones, which were at the top of the stack, with a colour. The original files, at the bottom of the stack, were uncoloured. After expanding the stacks, I just deleted all uncoloured images, leaving me with just the new DNGs. This is easier to do than describe, but it saves storing two sets of files. Ending up with a denoised DNG file is much better than a denoised TIFF from Topaz - I feel obliged to keep both (and TIFFs can be large)

Edited April 20, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

AI programs run MUCH faster on Silicon Macs. In my experience DXO denoises with the least artefacten and Topaz Photo AI  is a close second. Topaz Denoise requires more subtle handling and works best on selections. 

[LocalHero1953]

Some tests on one particular image where Topaz Denoise AI broke down at the extreme. The photo was taken in a hotel lobby with a Q2, at ISO 5000. The image was edited for exposure.

First the whole scene, for context. The area I will concentrate on is the right hand wall under the stairs.

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This is that area at 100%, with NR (and sharpening) turned off.

This is with Lightroom's former manual NR - the best I could do.

This is with Topaz Denoise AI (I can't remember if I tweaked the settings). Note how the darkest area has turned to mush where Topaz gives up. This is much more noticeable when it happens to a face!

And this is Lightroom with the new AI denoise, default settings. Interestingly, the darkest shadow is not much better than the old LR manual denoise, but as it gets lighter the performance improves much more.

 

I suspect my Topaz subscription will lapse soon. It's not just the better performance, but ending up with a DNG in Lightroom is better for workflow than a TIFF.

[sometimesmaybe]

i dont have LR... does AI de-noising make the older cameras like the 240 more viable for higher ISO work? 

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[LocalHero1953]

26 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

i dont have LR... does AI de-noising make the older cameras like the 240 more viable for higher ISO work? 

I must try it on some of my old M240 images!

[david strachan]

58 minutes ago, sometimesmaybe said:

i dont have LR... does AI de-noising make the older cameras like the 240 more viable for higher ISO work? 

That's my idea too.

To reduce noise in some of my higher ISO images on my M-P and my M8's. 

This program seems to work well, once I have my computer fixed, and seems to be the answer to early lower ISO cameras, and correcting for objectionable noise.

But I have to fix the very long processing times...up to 45 minutes per image!

I've taken on board Paul's comments and will do some more research today. It seems a bad graphics card can be the problem for slow denoise, and I've had warnings in LR about the incompatibility of my graphics card. 

Beaut examples Paul, thanks.

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