Brand new close focus Summilux-M 50 f/1.4 ASPH

[suff3li]

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On 5/11/2023 at 6:57 PM, suff3li said:

I received my copy today, ordered directly from Leica online store Austria. Lens arrived, I gave it a once over and there is quite a lot of dust inside it. Haven't had this happen to me before and I have to say i'm disappointed.

When i was cleaning the rear element with a lens cloth I noticed the rear element moves and rattles, as if it is a little loose. I haven't had a Leica FLE lens before, is this normal?

Update...

I got a new copy, same issues. Rattling/wobbly rear element and plenty of dust inside, especially behind the front element.

At this point I'm giving up on this lens. Any good ideas for an alternative? Maybe the older model has better QC or a different production line... 

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[kinetic]

4 minutes ago, suff3li said:

Update...

I got a new copy, same issues. Rattling/wobbly rear element and plenty of dust inside, especially behind the front element.

At this point I'm giving up on this lens. Any good ideas for an alternative? Maybe the older model has better QC or a different production line... 

sorry to hear! I just checked mine again, and I can slightly shift the rear glass element around, but it’s the black part that shifts with it, not the glass by itself. It doesn’t rattle, but it’s floating a bit and moves if I push lightly (like using a microfiber cloth). It seems sturdy otherwise. And no dust for me. Bummer you have had two bad ones!

 

maybe find a store locally that will order a couple when they’re more available and then you can buy it, try it, until you find a good copy. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by kinetic

[suff3li]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:40 PM, kinetic said:

sorry to hear! I just checked mine again, and I can slightly shift the rear glass element around, but it’s the black part that shifts with it, not the glass by itself. It doesn’t rattle, but it’s floating a bit and moves if I push lightly (like using a microfiber cloth). It seems sturdy otherwise. And no dust for me. Bummer you have had two bad ones!

 

maybe find a store locally that will order a couple when they’re more available and then you can buy it, try it, until you find a good copy. 

I am well aware that small dust inside the lens does not affect the image quality. However, for this being a premium product, I expect premium quality. I ordered a brand new Summicron-M 50mm earlier this year and it was immaculate. This is a picture of the 2nd copy I received; plenty of dust/moisture/oil stains/whatever behind the front element, in this picture the front element is clean, spots are behind the front element:

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With this one, the dust is worse than the 1st one and rear element is a bit more tight, but still rattly.

I've paid 4550€ for it and the local price in Finland is 4790€. Maybe the difference would be worth it, or maybe I should go for a good used copy of the MK 1 of this lens. Man, I don't know if Leica glass is worth it at this point... Made in Germany has lost its points in my eyes.

[kinetic]

Just now, suff3li said:

I am well aware that small dust inside the lens does not affect the image quality. However, for this being a premium product, I expect premium quality. I ordered a brand new Summicron-M 50mm earlier this year and it was immaculate. This is a picture of the 2nd copy I received; plenty of dust/moisture/oil stains/whatever behind the front element, in this picture the front element is clean, spots are behind the front element:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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With this one, the dust is worse than the 1st one and rear element is a bit more tight, but still rattly.

I've paid 4550€ for it and the local price in Finland is 4790€. Maybe the difference would be worth it, or maybe I should go for a good used copy of the MK 1 of this lens. Man, I don't know if Leica glass is worth it at this point... Made in Germany has lost its points in my eyes.

Yup, that's horrible. I don't know what to say. Mine isn't that way at all, but you're now 2 for 2, so you're totally justified with your assessment of the quality here.

[suff3li]

42 minutes ago, kinetic said:

Yup, that's horrible. I don't know what to say. Mine isn't that way at all, but you're now 2 for 2, so you're totally justified with your assessment of the quality here.

Yup and usually I'm a hard believer with "3rd time is the charm" but not this time. Enjoy your copy, seems like a great lens.

[kinetic]

24 minutes ago, suff3li said:

Yup and usually I'm a hard believer with "3rd time is the charm" but not this time. Enjoy your copy, seems like a great lens.

It's unfortunate that it happened to you. There's proof out there that there are good copies though. I hope one day you'll find one in a store in stock that isn't so messed up.

[ing_rippi]

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Am 25.5.2023 um 18:42 schrieb suff3li:

I am well aware that small dust inside the lens does not affect the image quality. However, for this being a premium product, I expect premium quality. I ordered a brand new Summicron-M 50mm earlier this year and it was immaculate. This is a picture of the 2nd copy I received; plenty of dust/moisture/oil stains/whatever behind the front element, in this picture the front element is clean, spots are behind the front element:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

With this one, the dust is worse than the 1st one and rear element is a bit more tight, but still rattly.

I've paid 4550€ for it and the local price in Finland is 4790€. Maybe the difference would be worth it, or maybe I should go for a good used copy of the MK 1 of this lens. Man, I don't know if Leica glass is worth it at this point... Made in Germany has lost its points in my eyes.

looking at the serial number of your lens, i can tell, that my copy is just some digits away from yours. I assume that these lenses are from the same batch, which is strange, because I have no issues at all. No dust inside, and no rattling issue. The only thing I noticed is a tiny metal noise I hear when cleaning the rear element. I only tried this due to the comments, I’m sure I wouldn’t have noticed it otherwise. Hope you get an immaculate copy soon.

[kinetic]

3 minutes ago, ing_rippi said:

looking at the serial number of your lens, i can tell, that my copy is just some digits away from yours. I assume that these lenses are from the same batch, which is strange, because I have no issues at all. No dust inside, and no rattling issue. The only thing I noticed is a tiny metal noise I hear when cleaning the rear element. I only tried this due to the comments, I’m sure I wouldn’t have noticed it otherwise. Hope you get an immaculate copy soon.

I have the same "noise" I believe. My rear element does move a bit too when cleaning, but it doesn't feel "broken." and more that it's just kind of floating.

[Lelmer]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:42 PM, suff3li said:

I am well aware that small dust inside the lens does not affect the image quality. However, for this being a premium product, I expect premium quality. I ordered a brand new Summicron-M 50mm earlier this year and it was immaculate. This is a picture of the 2nd copy I received; plenty of dust/moisture/oil stains/whatever behind the front element, in this picture the front element is clean, spots are behind the front element:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

With this one, the dust is worse than the 1st one and rear element is a bit more tight, but still rattly.

I've paid 4550€ for it and the local price in Finland is 4790€. Maybe the difference would be worth it, or maybe I should go for a good used copy of the MK 1 of this lens. Man, I don't know if Leica glass is worth it at this point... Made in Germany has lost its points in my eyes.

Amazing..! I don't understand how they dare to provide you with such a lens. Shame on the reseller.

[suff3li]

4 hours ago, Lelmer said:

Amazing..! I don't understand how they dare to provide you with such a lens. Shame on the reseller.

Mneh, I don't blame the reseller. Their service has been excellent and they just sell the sealed package that comes from the Leica factory. My finger is pointing at the production and their QC.

[kinetic]

Pre-focused in front, got lucky with the bubble placement. 
 

shot on M11

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[kinetic]

I'm struggling with focusing with the new focus tab. I think my focus ring is just really stiff and not smooth. I'm using three fingers on the tab to try to do precise movements, but ever since switching to this new lens from my lux black chrome, I'm missing focus so much.

I can chalk it up to learning something new, but I never had so much trouble with the 50 lux black chrome. That lens, however, was used, so it was probably loosened up by the time I got a hold of it.

I'm hoping the focus ring will smooth out soon. Anyone else having any issues?

[MaticB]

13 hours ago, kinetic said:

 

I'm hoping the focus ring will smooth out soon. Anyone else having any issues?

Well, mine is smooth from the very first day. It's true, stiffer than older one (Summilux 50 ASPH), but by no means rigid. I enjoy it very much on M 11 Monochrom. Perfect lens! 

[profus]

Somebody asked for more portraits with new Lux - here you go. Taken with SL2, distance to the model 0.5 - 0.6 m. Wide open.
A bit grain added in pp.

 

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Edited June 15, 2023 by profus

[kinetic]

Decided to take a few photos of flowers with the MFD

 

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[profus]

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[DIm77]

Hello everybody 

i have the opportunity to buy a used 50mm summilux asph v1 for a fair price. As many maybe, i wonder wether it could be a good idea or not. Would pair it with a M11 and a 35mm summicron to complete my zeiss sonnar. I mostly shoot portraits, street ambiances, at night sometimes and reportage. I m not sure the new one benefits worth the extra money. But I would be glad to Read your thoughts about that! 

[RexGig0]

2 hours ago, DIm77 said:

Hello everybody 

i have the opportunity to buy a used 50mm summilux asph v1 for a fair price. As many maybe, i wonder wether it could be a good idea or not. Would pair it with a M11 and a 35mm summicron to complete my zeiss sonnar. I mostly shoot portraits, street ambiances, at night sometimes and reportage. I m not sure the new one benefits worth the extra money. But I would be glad to Read your thoughts about that! 

Users of M11 cameras have been reporting that they can see a difference. The newer version is reported to have better coatings, resulting in better flare resistance. Some Leica shooters have asserted that there is no difference. I have neither an M11, nor the newer, Close-Focus Summilux ASPH, so, am simply saying that making a too-hasty decision may not be the best decision.

Personally, I was aware of the optical imperfections in the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, when I bought one, pre-owned, six years ago.

Regarding Close-Focus, it is best to see exactly what that means, and whether it is important. In early 2022, I added an APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, which was designed, by Peter Karbe, as a self-motivated labor of love, basing its design on that of his Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. It was this back-story that played a significant part in my decision to acquire the APO 75. Well, the Maximum Magnification of the APO 75, at its Minimum Focusing Distance of 0.7m, is nearly identical to that of the Close-Focus Summilux-M 50 ASPH, at its closer MFD. So, the Close Focus ability was not a reason for me to “upgrade.”

Regardless, “Close Focus” is not the same thing as “macro.”

Regarding external differences, when I use a 50mm lens, I prefer to grip the focusing ring, itself, rather than use a focus tab. The pre-II Summilux-M 50mm ASPH has knurling, or ribs, on the focusing ring. My 50mm Voigtlander lanses have no focusing tabs. My Leica pre-APO Summicron lenses have no focusing tabs. The Close-Focus, version II of the Summilux has only the focusing tab, to assist the shooter in turning the focusing ring. A focusing tab, with no knurling or ribs, is neither right nor wrong, but a matter of personal preference.

Regarding flare-resistance, well, veiling flare can be used artistically, so, I would not want to lose my beloved first Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, in a sale or trade, to enable acquiring the newer version. I can virtually eliminate flare, when harsh light is present, by using my Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar VM.

Notably, from late 2010, until very early 2018, I had the added duty of evidentiary/forensic/crime scene photography, a task in which I used the best 100mm macro lens in the world, to shoot the technically best images, for official purposes. The task included images of living, breathing, traumatized people, from “portrait” to macro distance. When I bought my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, I did NOT want a perfectly-optically-corrected lens. I had the means to afford the more-perfectly-corrected APO Summicron-M 50mm ASPH, but, I chose creativity; optical imperfection. My Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, first version, may have preserved my desire to continue to photograph people. So, I am biased. 

Edited May 27, 2024 by RexGig0

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[DIm77]

11 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

Users of M11 cameras have been reporting that they can see a difference. The newer version is reported to have better coatings, resulting in better flare resistance. Some Leica shooters have asserted that there is no difference. I have neither an M11, nor the newer, Close-Focus Summilux ASPH, so, am simply saying that making a too-hasty decision may not be the best decision.

Personally, I was aware of the optical imperfections in the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, when I bought one, pre-owned, six years ago.

Regarding Close-Focus, it is best to see exactly what that means, and whether it is important. In early 2022, I added an APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, which was designed, by Peter Karbe, as a self-motivated labor of love, basing its design on that of his Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. It was this back-story that played a significant part in my decision to acquire the APO 75. Well, the Maximum Magnification of the APO 75, at its Minimum Focusing Distance of 0.7m, is nearly identical to that of the Close-Focus Summilux-M 50 ASPH, at its closer MFD. So, the Close Focus ability was not a reason for me to “upgrade.”

Regardless, “Close Focus” is not the same thing as “macro.”

Regarding external differences, when I use a 50mm lens, I prefer to grip the focusing ring, itself, rather than use a focus tab. The pre-II Summilux-M 50mm ASPH has knurling, or ribs, on the focusing ring. My 50mm Voigtlander lanses have no focusing tabs. My Leica pre-APO Summicron lenses have no focusing tabs. The Close-Focus, version II of the Summilux has only the focusing tab, to assist the shooter in turning the focusing ring. A focusing tab, with no knurling or ribs, is neither right nor wrong, but a matter of personal preference.

Regarding flare-resistance, well, veiling flare can be used artistically, so, I would not want to lose my beloved first Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, in a sale or trade, to enable acquiring the newer version. I can virtually eliminate flare, when harsh light is present, by using my Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar VM.

Notably, from late 2010, until very early 2018, I had the added duty of evidentiary/forensic/crime scene photography, a task in which I used the best 100mm macro lens in the world, to shoot the technically best images, for official purposes. The task included images of living, breathing, traumatized people, from “portrait” to macro distance. When I bought my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, I did NOT want a perfectly-optically-corrected lens. I had the means to afford the more-perfectly-corrected APO Summicron-M 50mm ASPH, but, I chose creativity; optical imperfection. My Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, first version, may have preserved my desire to continue to photograph people. So, I am biased. 

I totally agree with you. My most used lens on the m11 is the 40mm summicron. Not a perfect Lens at all but it gives me a rich organic result that I praise. I do not need a perfect optic for unperfect world

That’s also why I love the Sonnar. But it’s sometimes to unpredictable especially at night. 

[AndrewLT]

Having been indecisive for far too long about buying a 50mm Summilux, for use on my M11 and MP, I’ve been interested to read this and one or two other threads on this new version of the lens.  In no sense do I need another 50mm lens (I already have the CV f/2.0 APO and a lovely Summicron v5 chrome), but I freely admit to being very tempted by the idea of a Summilux, possibly even a pre-Asph, to complement the APO.  So, I have one, quite specific, question, for those of you who have experience of using both the original (2004) and latest (2023) versions:

How how much of an improvement in resolution have you noticed across the frame (not just in the centre)?

 

My reason for asking this question is as follows:

 

In his excellent article about the lens, Jonathan Slack states there is a “small but noticeable improvement …. especially with respect to edge definition”.  I also noticed a quite surprising difference — more than “small”, for sure — in a mid-frame crop comparing the two versions in a video by Matt Osborne.  His usual subject matter is not what I’m most interested in, but the comparison I’m referring to is a city view at infinity, at 6:07 in this video: https://youtu.be/Ld37M6PZ6a8 .  If you view this video, look at the text ‘Wereldmuseum’ on the side of the building.  (I found the video well worth watching.)  There is also a screenshot of an edge of frame comparison from the same image on his website, here, about a third of the way down the page: https://mrleica.com/leica-summilux-50mm-asph-ii/  And Leica claim that the lens has been optimized for higher-resolution sensors, although I haven’t seen any explanation of what they mean by that.

 

Interestingly, the MTF graphs seem to suggest that, while there is a modest improvement in resolution at the centre of the frame, there may actually be a slight decrease in performance mid-frame (e.g. around 12mm at f/2.8).  The evidence suggests that, in practice, this is not actually the case, and I appreciate that MTF graphs don’t always tell the whole story,  Which is why I’d be interested to hear from those of you who have experience of actually using both lenses.

 

(I also appreciate that the new version has quite a few other improvements, in addition to the closer focusing.  Multiple small improvements can soon add up …. 😉 )

 

Thanks ….

Andrew

 

 

Edited May 28, 2024 by AndrewLT
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