50mm APO that much better than CRON?

[Jan1985]

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Is the 50mm APO-M really that much better than the normal 50 Cron?

do you see this difference in quality in regular sized images?

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[shirubadanieru]

https://www.flickr.com/groups/summicron50mm/

https://www.flickr.com/groups/leica-apo-summicron-50mm-asph/

 

Judge by yourself, it’s all relative depending how much you care about corner sharpness, sharpness wide open, etc. etc. Only you can tell if you see the difference and if that difference is pleasing to your eyes. 

Just as FYI, for me it isn’t, but then again, I like shooting 1940~50s lenses

Edited March 3, 2023 by shirubadanieru

[Jeff S]

The 50 Summilux ASPH suits my needs better than both.  But I only determined that by shooting… and editing and printing…with each over a sufficient period.  Specs don’t tell all.

Jeff

[jaeger]

APO = apochromatic, so it's better controlled when it happens. 

[darylgo]

If detail and microcontrast are your goal the apo  will give you spectacular images.  For my use the level of detail is too great but any lens can be made to resolve less with reduced contrast by adding filters.  I am in agreement with Jeff S the Summilux Asph is my first choice, it will be close to the Apo in performance at most apertures, wide open it will render a bit more softly but by no means soft.  Trying the lens choices is always best, there are so many variables not the least of which is your style and subject matter.   

[lct]

I prefer 50/2 v4 or v5 for portraits and 50/2 apo for the rest but v4 is more often in my bag due to its smaller size and weight generally. 

[Erato]

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APO lenses often contain special low-dispersion glasses such as Aspherical( aka. ASPH.) tail lenses, which are the cron tail lenses usually don't.

APOs are often comes with a higher order correction, while the achromatic lenses are focus mostly only two wavelengths in the same focus plane. In fact, the Apochromatic lens usually comes with the result of 3 or more visible wavelengths to focus at the same distance(focus plane).

The more corrections applied to the lens design, the more characters might be lost and this could be the reason why people often feel that the APO lenses are too perfect in the field.

IMHO, get an APO lens while you're primary focus on the studio grade outcome or the ultimate printing result in order to meet the press, magazine or your personal behavior.

According to my experience, finding a remarkable lens to meet the criteria of either achromatic or Apochromatic level design is relatively hard to get in the market but there are still some remarkable gems reaching that benchmark even they don't apply Aspherical elements at all.

[Gregm61]

I preferred "making do" at the 50mm focal length (LOL) and have the standard 50mm f2 v5 Summicron and spent on the other FL's that mattered more to me, like the 35mm f1.4 FLE, 90mm f2 APO, 135mm f3.4 and the two super-wide, Super Elmars, 21mm and 18mm....

among others...

[hmzimelka]

11 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Is the 50mm APO-M really that much better than the normal 50 Cron?

do you see this difference in quality in regular sized images?

I have the Summicron-M 50mm V, and I bought the APO in December last year. I gave it right back.

Either I had a sub-optimal copy, which I'm hoping I did ( not surprised with my Leica's quality experience) or the lens is very underwhelming with a very overwhelming price. Or I have an exemplary copy of the Cron V.

The APO I had was about 1 stop better than my Cron V for colour aberration. It had more colour aberration than I expected. Much more, honestly.
It was a little sharper with little more micro and fine detail contrast. Focus falloff was quicker. No focus shift. A tiny bit more distortion too. The Cron V has almost nothing in the form of distortion. 

The APO focus was very stiff and using the focus tab was unpleasant with this level of resistance. The aperture ring was loose and had play in all directions and could be clicked to the next step at the slightest touch. 

The APO experience cured my Leica lust for probably a whole long time. My 2022 experience for Leica gear was horrible. 

PM me if you want to see some comparison M11 DNG images between the Con and the APO cron.

 

[SiggiGun]

What means better? 
Yes the lens renders different very visible if wide open

[elmars]

With normal-sized photos, you will hardly even notice a difference. Most subjects do not require the sharpness of an APO or its quality is not likely to play a role in the result. But sometimes you do see it and then the apo is impressive.

But for me the following would be more important: The normal Summicron has a flare problem under certain conditions. A larger spot appears in the center of the image, which is brighter and less contrasted than the rest of the image. It also has a little focus shift.

[Jon Warwick]

13 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Is the 50mm APO-M really that much better than the normal 50 Cron?

do you see this difference in quality in regular sized images?

Depends on what you mean regular sized prints. I tested both my APO and v5 on an M240 and could see de minimis difference at 24” wide prints in terms of final detail.

Veiling flare, focus shift, field curvature, and “rendering” are all greater differences than fine detail at that print size, IMHO.

Similar to lct’s comment, I (much) prefer the v5 for portraits, and the APO - which I subsequently changed to a Voigtlander APO Lanthar - for everything else.

[EJS73]

Personally I like the contrast and focus fall-off of the APO for everything from portraits to landscape, so once I got over the sticker shock I'm really enjoying it. I figured that the only way I could justify the cost would be to use it all the time, but I never did straight comparisons. I also have the 50 summilux (current), which I see many people think comes close to the APO, but I find is a much trickier lens to master than either summicron.

Edited March 4, 2023 by EJS73

[fil-m]

Even though they are both "Cron's", they are quite different. Though I would not use the "much better" qualifier - just "different". 

The APO privileges clarity and transparency with fine rendition and a quite sharp transition from in focus to OOF areas. 

The "standard" Cron provides a softer rendering with some specific (though not extreme) moodiness. 

I find the APO more permissive for street photography and landscapes as I can crop/adjust easily while off-centred subjects or objects remain extremely well rendered (etc). There is technical perfection in the pictures that I make, with the APO rendering character (in focus to OOF transition) that I like.

The standard Cron is more permissive for portraits as flaws are less visible and less standout - which is good/specific rendering plus it makes the experience easier. Less contrast IMO which makes it a bit more tolerant to lighting conditions.  

So I don't have a preference, it took me time to converge and I need both rendering styles! Ultimately I went through so many different 50s (my preferred focal) including the cron until I settled on "extremes" ie the 50/1 (a Summicron on steroids) and the APO-50 !       

The standard Cron remains a great all purpose lens! If I have to chose one 50, the Cron will probably be my preferred choice -- being also compact and much less expensive

Edited March 4, 2023 by fil-m

[newtoleica]

I had one briefly bought used. It was quite striking as people have said, mainly the combination of microcontrast, resolution at the focal plane and steep but soft fall off. For a 50 in my use I just couldn’t justify that expensive a lens. I now have a summilux asph that I got for about 2/3 of the going rate as it has an inconsequential mark on the front element. 

[Jk1002]

When i browsed the flickr group for the APO I did not like the bokeh in most wide open pictures. There were few exceptions but Cron and Lux are more to my likings. I am not sure why this hardly ever comes up.

Also, the APO preowned seems to be trading with quite a discount, when I shopped for the Lux last month I saw open box APOs listed for 5500$ and there was a best offer option so that would have shaved little off

 

 

 

[Leitz.]

20 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Is the 50mm APO-M really that much better than the normal 50 Cron?

Depends on what you mean by “much better”. It is technically better in various ways. Is it worth $9,000 or $6,000 used? Ridiculous… Not to me no. 

The regular v4 optics Summicron is all I need.

If you have to have a 50f2 APO just buy the Voigtländer version. Other than vignette wide open you’ll hardly see a difference in every day use. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Leitz.

[Jan1985]

the reason why I'm asking. I own a 50mm APO since 2015. I rarely use this lens. Even that I know that is has a huge potential and so on. So the logical decision should be to sell it. But on the other hand I know that getting a new one now is much more expensive. I also have a 50 Noctilux and 75mm Noctilux. These I use more.

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[Jeff S]

Well then, it would be a relative pittance to pick up a 50 Summicron to assess. 

Jeff

[Lelmer]

48 minutes ago, Jan1985 said:

the reason why I'm asking. I own a 50mm APO since 2015. I rarely use this lens. Even that I know that is has a huge potential and so on. So the logical decision should be to sell it. But on the other hand I know that getting a new one now is much more expensive. I also have a 50 Noctilux and 75mm Noctilux. These I use more.

Well, I have a Summicron v5...you sell me your APO for a moderate price, shouldn't be a problem if you don't use it much, and I'll answer your question 🙂