Leica 35/2 and 50/2 SL ASPH lenses?

[kobra]

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4 minutes ago, cj3209 said:

(1) These new lenses are metal and have a specific type of glass coating.  I believe they are also weather-proof.

(2) MTF charts don't always correlate to real world performance.  Leica has pros using these 'cheap' lenses already and the pics look excellent.

(3) If you can get ~85% of the performance of the APOs with less weight and all-weather construction; I think some people will really want that. 

I did see the one promo video on Leica's site, but do you have links to pics from these new lenses? I'd be very interested in seeing those. 

Thanks!

Brad

[AZN]

56 minutes ago, kobra said:

I did see the one promo video on Leica's site, but do you have links to pics from these new lenses? I'd be very interested in seeing those. 

Thanks!

Brad

I saw the following on YouTube.  Is it the same as Leica's promo video?

 

[kobra]

1 hour ago, AZN said:

I saw the following on YouTube.  Is it the same as Leica's promo video?

 

Yes, that's the only one I've seen so far. I do hope to see more soon. 

That is one notable difference with Leica... it seems far more common for other camera manufacturers to have a lot of "early influencers" who get preproduction copies of their new products well in advance, so that on the day of announcement, there are already many reviews that immediately pop up. It is clear Leica is not doing that, at least not with these lenses. 

 

Brad

[cj3209]

1 hour ago, AZN said:

I saw the following on YouTube.  Is it the same as Leica's promo video?

 

Yah, that's it.  I've asked him for more pics using the new Leica lenses.

[nicci78]

On 2/9/2023 at 4:52 PM, SrMi said:

Strongly disagree. No interest in S5II, while my SL2 and SL2-S deliver some of the best possible shooting experiences. It depends on one's photography, i.e., I do not need AF-C with SL2 or SL2-S (or any of my MF cameras). 

SL2 & SL2-S did not exist in a vaccum

 

On 2/9/2023 at 4:52 PM, SrMi said:

Strongly disagree. No interest in S5II, while my SL2 and SL2-S deliver some of the best possible shooting experiences. It depends on one's photography, i.e., I do not need AF-C with SL2 or SL2-S (or any of my MF cameras). 

SL2 & SL2-S did not exist in a vacuum. 
If you wanted one you already got the chance to buy it. We are now in 2023, competition is absolutely stunning. 
Leica own partner  Lumix has release the very first camera with their L2 technologies : S5 II. And it it awesome. 
It is totally legitimate/logical to wait for SL3 or SL3-S with the same tech. 

Obviously what makes SL2 and SL2-S great is still relevant. However AF never was and it is fixed with L2 technologies in S5 II. 

I really think that every L-mount cameras SL, CL, S1, S1R, fp, SL2, S1H, S5, fp L & SL2-S are now in the no buy category. They will depreciate heavily. 
 

We can wait for SL3 (with state of the art hybrid AF PDAF/DFD) It will come sooner than later.  
No need to rush to buy years old SL2 with subpar AF (at 2023 standard) 

Edited February 11, 2023 by nicci78

[Daniel C.1975]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

No need to rush to buy years old SL2 with subpar AF (at 2023 standard) 

Except you can save some bucks and don‘t need the latest and greatest AF and not more resolution.

I believe the SL2s and in this respect also the SL2 are still worthwhile and great cameras for what they do.

If you of course struggle a lot with the AF for your applications or you do e.g. indoor sports, than I agree absolutely.

AF would in fact be the least reason for me to upgrade from my SL2s or Q2(ok, face recognition with the Q2 is not great). There might be others, but AF would only be a side note and a nice get in addition, for me and at this point of time.

 

Back to the lenses: If there is enough Leica magic in these Panasonic designs (QA, coatings, polishing, and finally touch and feel as a part), they still could be a very good deal for some. If they are really the same, same but in different clothes, I would have a hard time to justify the extra cost just for aesthetics.

However, as usual it’s the rule of diminishing returns. Is a apo-summicron-sl  35mm nine times better than the LUMIX or Sigma variations? No, it isn’t. of course not. I still enjoy it very much and do not regret a single cent I‘ve paid for it.

 

So I wait and see what they will finally bring on the bench before I argue that Leica is ripping us off (and btw, they really lost me with the latest prices for a M11 or the m Apo lenses, this meanwhile is really, really hard to justify and deep in jewellery territory. I mean, 13.250 Euro for an M11 with a 28mm Summicron or 16.450 if you choose a 35mm apo instead - hey men, this is beyond expensive. just my thought)

 

Cheers

Edited February 11, 2023 by Daniel C.1975

[hansvons]

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3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

... SL2-S are now in the no buy category.

There's also the keep and work category. 

One reason why I work with Leica is their relatively slow product cycle. I'd be upset if a recent investment became obsolete today. I bought the SL2s on March 21 and shot thousands of images and days of video. It does for what I bought it, and it's nowhere close to a state where a replacement will be needed. Yes, the AF-C is a joke, but I didn't buy it for that feature. If that were important to me, I wouldn't have purchased that camera in the first place.

But I expect a manufacturer to protect my investment. That's important to me. Churning out new models every other year, often only with incremental improvements or adjustments to a particular niche, does the exact opposite. You may sell more cameras by heating the market, but you will lose loyalty. Your former loyal customer will jump ship for the competition's latest and greatest, and the only way to win them back is by luring them back with new tech. 

GAS is the result and not better images nor happy long-time customers.

Leica knows that, of course, and is not in that race, and I appreciate it. Their business model includes low tides in sales. That's why the Ms are marketed out of step to the SL line.

There will be an SL3s, and I will buy it if it has relevant features for video work, such as an articulated screen. But that will be in a year or so. I find three years an acceptable product cycle for a 5K investment. For comparison, an Arri Alexa has a product cycle of 8 years+. It costs ten times more. 

 

3 hours ago, Daniel C.1975 said:

... they really lost me with the latest prices for a M11 or the m Apo lenses, this meanwhile is really, really hard to justify and deep in jewellery territory.

The M line is a product that sits in a tiny niche, with sanity and the wallet as its only competition. I like the jewellery comparison, as Swiss watches are typically a man's only expression in that area. You may want them, but you don't need one.

[stout_trapdoor9]

12 hours ago, cj3209 said:

(1) These new lenses are metal and have a specific type of glass coating.  I believe they are also weather-proof.

(2) MTF charts don't always correlate to real world performance.  Leica has pros using these 'cheap' lenses already and the pics look excellent.

(3) If you can get ~85% of the performance of the APOs with less weight and all-weather construction; I think some people will really want that. 

#3 is the exact reason why I am buying on of the new Summicrons, a 50/2.  If I had more pixels than the SL2-S I would consider the APOs, but my SL2-S gets used with M-mount lenses. I would like one or two SL native lenses for really bad weather, but I just don't see myself as either good enough or my subject matter requiring that last bleeding edge of quality from the APO lenses. 

I am greatly enjoying all the sound and fury when there aren't even any reviews or test images available.  I do find it odd to announce a new product with absolutely nothing in the way of supporting details, though. Oh well, I suppose I can always send it back if I don't like it, if and when I get it.

[Chaemono]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

SL2 & SL2-S did not exist in a vacuum. 
If you wanted one you already got the chance to buy it. We are now in 2023, competition is absolutely stunning. 
Leica own partner  Lumix has release the very first camera with their L2 technologies : S5 II. And it it awesome. 
It is totally legitimate/logical to wait for SL3 or SL3-S with the same tech. 

Obviously what makes SL2 and SL2-S great is still relevant. However AF never was and it is fixed with L2 technologies in S5 II. 

I really think that every L-mount cameras SL, CL, S1, S1R, fp, SL2, S1H, S5, fp L & SL2-S are now in the no buy category. They will depreciate heavily. 
 

We can wait for SL3 (with state of the art hybrid AF PDAF/DFD) It will come sooner than later.  
No need to rush to buy years old SL2 with subpar AF (at 2023 standard) 

The M11 sensor stabilized is the main reason to upgrade from the SL2 to SL3 for those who don’t particularly care for AF-C. ISO 64 looks amazing. The SL2-S will still give cleaner pushed shadows at higher ISO, I’m sure. Also, the idea that some sensor pixels are used for AF is anathema to some. The purists know there’s something there even if cleverly “removed” by in-camera processing. https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/gfx-100-pdaf-banding-is-fixed/ (See comments). Comparisons between SL2-S and S5 II files will come. It will take me a while, though. Too busy with work these days. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Chaemono:

 

Double post

Edited February 11, 2023 by Chaemono

[nicci78]

@Chaemono leica rumors already talk about SL3 for September 2023. 
It is very urgent to wait.

The ship has sailed, hybrid PDAF + CDAF + IA has won by a very large margin. Resistance is futile.

Leica marketing will tell you soon why PDAF is so great 🤣

S5 II is just showing how great L2 technologies are. Do not buy any L-mount camera brand new    

Nobody should buy Q2 either. Q3 with PDAF will be awesome  

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by nicci78

[Olaf_ZG]

Obviously my name is nobody as within three months I bought a Q2 and SL2-s.

not even knowing what is pdaf or cdaf, for sure I most probably will not miss it.

would like to see the SL3 with a sensor a-la m11. Not because of af, but for long exposures.

the SL3 might come this year, but seeing the problems with the m11, I won’t be an early adopter. Till then, I will enjoy the sl2-s.

Happy to be nobody.

[Boojay]

8 hours ago, nicci78 said:

SL2 & SL2-S did not exist in a vaccum

 

SL2 & SL2-S did not exist in a vacuum. 
If you wanted one you already got the chance to buy it. We are now in 2023, competition is absolutely stunning. 
Leica own partner  Lumix has release the very first camera with their L2 technologies : S5 II. And it it awesome. 
It is totally legitimate/logical to wait for SL3 or SL3-S with the same tech. 

Obviously what makes SL2 and SL2-S great is still relevant. However AF never was and it is fixed with L2 technologies in S5 II. 

I really think that every L-mount cameras SL, CL, S1, S1R, fp, SL2, S1H, S5, fp L & SL2-S are now in the no buy category. They will depreciate heavily. 
 

We can wait for SL3 (with state of the art hybrid AF PDAF/DFD) It will come sooner than later.  
No need to rush to buy years old SL2 with subpar AF (at 2023 standard) 

Nicci can I ask if you are using an S5II and if so what exactly are you finding it awesome for?   

 

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

It is very urgent to wait.

That's a very common attitude, especially for those of us who feel overwhelmed by the rate of change in technology. Of course, the consequence is that you will never buy a new camera, computer, car, phone, bicycle, refrigerator, shaver, sneaker, etc. There is something better around the corner, you should wait!

I'm not saying that this attitude doesn't have positive aspects. It tempers the excesses of consumer culture.

What if I want to take pictures today?

[OleBe]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

I really think that every L-mount cameras SL, CL, S1, S1R, fp, SL2, S1H, S5, fp L & SL2-S are now in the no buy category. They will depreciate heavily. 

The fp is a cinema camera, heavily used as well as a directors viewfinder on set. Just got an update with more anamorphic preview modes requested directly from ARRI rental. Also it is the only camera of all these (excluding fp L which got the same update) which can show exposure metering from the RAW exposure of the sensor, now even with Ed Lachmanns famous EL Zone system.

Do not think that these users/buyers are really interested in PDAF etc...  Although I would agree that this is a very special/niche tool.
 

Edited February 11, 2023 by OleBe

[LD_50]

29 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Obviously my name is nobody as within three months I bought a Q2 and SL2-s.

not even knowing what is pdaf or cdaf, for sure I most probably will not miss it.

would like to see the SL3 with a sensor a-la m11. Not because of af, but for long exposures.

the SL3 might come this year, but seeing the problems with the m11, I won’t be an early adopter. Till then, I will enjoy the sl2-s.

Happy to be nobody.

I agree with not waiting for an unknown future camera if the current one fits your needs. 

You don’t have to know the difference between PDAF and CDAF to experience the difference in practice. You’d likely only notice better AF speed. 

[DanielJr]

Man, it's hard to say if these lenses are worth it at this time. I think these lens will sell just for the fact they are Leica cheaper lens. But to me if I'm buying Leica I'm buying a Leica. 

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, DanielJr said:

Man, it's hard to say if these lenses are worth it at this time. I think these lens will sell just for the fact they are Leica cheaper lens. But to me if I'm buying Leica I'm buying a Leica. 

The new lenses are titled "Made by Leica." Is that not good enough ;-)? What percentage of the lens design of the lens had to be done by Leica employees or contractors to be acceptable? 

Whether the new lenses are a simple repackaging or a new design, the question is whether they are better or worse than the other available lenses. I would not buy a Leica lens because it is Leica, but because I feel it is a better lens. 

[DanielJr]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

The new lenses are titled "Made by Leica." Is that not good enough ;-)? What percentage of the lens design of the lens had to be done by Leica employees or contractors to be acceptable? 

Whether the new lenses are a simple repackaging or a new design, the question is whether they are better or worse than the other available lenses. I would not buy a Leica lens because it is Leica, but because I feel it is a better lens. 

If I cant flex it I don't want it. /s

Edited February 11, 2023 by DanielJr

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[cj3209]

19 hours ago, cj3209 said:

Yah, that's it.  I've asked him for more pics using the new Leica lenses.

He responded by saying they were incredible in Italian...lol.   I asked him where can I see them...