SL3 Rumors

[LEGEND]

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14 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Even worse, what does this sign mean: circle around ! … caution, freezing in action?

perhaps... ”Warning... Immediate warp core meltdown... Initiate the Warp Core Ejection sequence protocol...“ 😃
Then you need to remove the battery before the camera explode ... 

Edited February 23, 2024 by LEGEND

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[algrove]

I like the two different memory card profiles.

[Pelu2010]

I would love if the new SL3 would have the lightmeter on the Oled display beside the big dial. That is one thing that I miss. So I can measure the light without looking through the camera. 
Cheers 

[hdmesa]

23 hours ago, SrMi said:

The main reason for less aliasing is the increased resolution, not the cover glass.

The person I was quoting was speaking to aliasing at the pixel level. That will not be affected by resolution since they share the same pixel density and base sensor design. The only things left that would make aliasing worse on one versus the other at the pixel level would be cover glass, microlens array, lens choice, and perhaps firmware processing of the RAW image and/or how C1 and LR are processing the RAW files.

 

23 hours ago, Photoworks said:

shooting these two cameras side by side for over 2 years, I see many image quality differences, especially in hi-iso where the Q2 creates banding at 3200 ISO where the SL2 never did. There got to be a difference!

The SL2 processor can run faster, and its larger body allows for better heat dissipation. The entire package affects high ISO noise, not just the sensor.

Edited February 24, 2024 by hdmesa

[SrMi]

50 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

The person I was quoting was speaking to aliasing at the pixel level. That will not be affected by resolution since they share the same pixel density and base sensor design. The only things left that would make aliasing worse on one versus the other at the pixel level would be cover glass, microlens array, lens choice, and perhaps firmware processing of the RAW image and/or how C1 and LR are processing the RAW files.

That makes sense. Of course, AA filters and the lens used also influence the visibility of aliasing.

 

 

[Jon Warwick]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

The person I was quoting was speaking to aliasing at the pixel level. That will not be affected by resolution since they share the same pixel density and base sensor design. The only things left that would make aliasing worse on one versus the other at the pixel level would be cover glass, microlens array, lens choice, and perhaps firmware processing of the RAW image and/or how C1 and LR are processing the RAW files.

 

Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense as I’d forgotten the pixel density being the same. It will be interesting what I perceive the differences might be between an SL3 vs M11 (both with APO lenses) vs Fuji 100mp medium format for my large landscape prints, say to 50” wide. If the SL3 (even in single shot mode, let alone pixel shift mode) possibly has less aliasing at the pixel level than the M11, and combine that with the supreme SL APO Summicrons, the extra resolution off the 100mp sensor might be unobvious at 50” prints. Which then leaves the question of “which rendering do I find more pleasing to my taste”?

Edited February 24, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[Photoworks]

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On 2/23/2024 at 1:41 PM, tomasis7 said:

has it to do with cooling like a copper frame around the sensor? I was able to check out tear-down videos of various Leica cameras. 

Interesting, but if it does not perform the same, can we still say it is the same?
If I can't take the same photo can you claim it is the same? 🤔

[tomasis7]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Interesting, but if it does not perform the same, can we still say it is the same?
If I can't take the same photo can you claim it is the same? 🤔

Good question. The more I think about it, I think the beefy cooling material is aimed at recording. Canon had a problem with long-time recording. 

[Dr. G]

Technical question.  If they use the same EVF but update the camera’s processor, will the lag in the EVF at higher ISOs get better, or is this an issue with the EVF itself?

[JohnathanLovm]

On 2/23/2024 at 5:53 PM, sinnicknick said:

I just got an invitation from Leica Spain to an event in Madrid on March 7th, in which "the new Leica camera" will be introduced.

So I guess that's it!

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Pretty much SL3 position themselves as video camera. I wonder how they gonna complete GFX100II with similar price. 
 

[Geoff C. Bassett]

10 minutes ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Pretty much SL3 position themselves as video camera. I wonder how they gonna complete GFX100II with similar price. 
 

As someone that does video work for a living, they really should have picked a different sensor if they were going in that direction. The M11 sensor has horrific rolling shutter. The best thing about the SL2 is how fast the sensor readout is in Full Frame 4K.

No cinematographer is going to use this camera for Full frame shooting if it maxes out at 30p with the full sensor width. 

[JohnathanLovm]

33 minutes ago, Geoff C. Bassett said:

As someone that does video work for a living, they really should have picked a different sensor if they were going in that direction. The M11 sensor has horrific rolling shutter. The best thing about the SL2 is how fast the sensor readout is in Full Frame 4K.

No cinematographer is going to use this camera for Full frame shooting if it maxes out at 30p with the full sensor width. 

I see, I keep that in mind when the used-SL2 price come down a bit. 

[PeterGA]

I'd like someone to explain to me how the M11/Q3 files are 'better' than the SL2 with an example or two -  I must be missing something(s)?

[hjddd]

2 hours ago, PeterGA said:

我希望有人用一两个例子向我解释 M11/Q3 文件如何比 SL2 “更好” - 我一定错过了一些东西？

I agree！SL2 is so good enough。What Leica must do is resolve the actual problems happening in M11 series 

[Simone_DF]

4 hours ago, PeterGA said:

I'd like someone to explain to me how the M11/Q3 files are 'better' than the SL2 with an example or two -  I must be missing something(s)?

Well, I find the SL2 unusable at 1600 iso and above due to the really ugly noise pattern, whereas with the new sensor you can happily go to 6400 and above. 

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, hjddd said:

I agree！SL2 is so good enough。What Leica must do is resolve the actual problems happening in M11 series 

One doesn’t exclude the other. 

[trickness]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Well, I find the SL2 unusable at 1600 iso and above due to the really ugly noise pattern, whereas with the new sensor you can happily go to 6400 and above. 

I agree that 1600 or above is really bad with noise - but I have my doubts about any product with technology derived from the M11 platform and all of its reliability problems. I just got a barely used backup silver SL2 at a superb price, and will likely get an SL2-S sometime after March 7. Hope I'm wrong, but I think based on the leaked images, the unique form factor of the SL & SL2 is largely gone, and given the fact that you can get a very nice used SL2-S for around 3K USD, the SL3 is going to have to be a very special camera for me to cough up the extra $4000 (vs a used SL2-S) for whatever noise improvements it may have.

[BernardC]

19 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

It will be interesting what I perceive the differences might be between an SL3 vs M11 (both with APO lenses) vs Fuji 100mp medium format for my large landscape prints, say to 50” wide. If the SL3 (even in single shot mode, let alone pixel shift mode) possibly has less aliasing at the pixel level than the M11, and combine that with the supreme SL APO Summicrons, the extra resolution off the 100mp sensor might be unobvious at 50” prints. Which then leaves the question of “which rendering do I find more pleasing to my taste”?

The SL3 and M11 should be similar, provided they have the same pixel pitch and you use the same lenses.

Comparisons to the GFX are more interesting. In theory, the GFX should get just as much aliasing at the same apertures, because it uses similar sensor tech, but it's likely that Fuji uses more anti-aliasing, and that the lenses don't have the same contrast at frequencies that are close to the pixel pitch.

 

People will test this when the SL3 is finally available, but it wouldn't surprise me if the SL3 and GFX displayed similar amounts of fine detail in large prints, particularly if the SL3 is using APO Summicrons.

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[Dr. G]

1 hour ago, trickness said:

I agree that 1600 or above is really bad with noise - but I have my doubts about any product with technology derived from the M11 platform and all of its reliability problems. I just got a barely used backup silver SL2 at a superb price, and will likely get an SL2-S sometime after March 7. Hope I'm wrong, but I think based on the leaked images, the unique form factor of the SL & SL2 is largely gone, and given the fact that you can get a very nice used SL2-S for around 3K USD, the SL3 is going to have to be a very special camera for me to cough up the extra $4000 (vs a used SL2-S) for whatever noise improvements it may have.

I recently took the Q3 and my SL2-S to a five day event.  I had the SL2 a few years ago but also found that I didn’t like the noise in the images.  I picked up the SL2-S for mostly low light photography and it’s been my main camera for a few years.  I used both cameras (Q3 and SL2-S) at the beginning of the trip but there were some events that I didn’t want to carry both and just grabbed the Q3.  It was surprisingly good in low light.  If the sensor is the same in the SL3, I would have no issues making that my only carry.  FWIW, the lens on the Q3 is great, but I still liked my images with my APO Summicron-SL lenses better on the SL2-S.  My Q3 had no reliability issues at all, so I’m hopeful that the SL3 will be ok.  I did end up selling the Q3 because I’m not a 28mm shooter.  I’d love a 24 APO, but I’m not holding my breath.

[LBJ2]

13 hours ago, Geoff C. Bassett said:

As someone that does video work for a living, they really should have picked a different sensor if they were going in that direction. The M11 sensor has horrific rolling shutter. The best thing about the SL2 is how fast the sensor readout is in Full Frame 4K.

No cinematographer is going to use this camera for Full frame shooting if it maxes out at 30p with the full sensor width. 

Not to worry. I don't think I see the "horrific rolling shutter" icon on the SL3 event  invitation.  😁