SL3 Rumors

[Ken Abrahams]

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5 minutes ago, trickness said:

Because it’s time. They’ve been pushing the SL2 so hard the past few months, all sorts of package deals, the SL2-S has been discounted so heavily it’s within reach of the used price of the camera….plus Leica Rumors has already mentioned it was coming (likely late) this year along with M11M and Q3. With everything going on in the market from the competition, you really think its going to be another year plus before the SL3 comes?

Interesting commentary Trickness, and one cannot do much about it except wait. On the other hand, time seems to be an issue for me and mapping any sure future is precarious. That is why I will purchase the SL2S in a few weeks and probably kick in with the Leica offer which I have activated. I will probably go the SL Summicron 50, my first SL lens in the Alliance with all my other lenses Leica M. The SL2s is probably going to work better for me with lower light and or street work conditions and which wont require the big files. I look forward to the image stabilisation in Street work because of the movement shooting from the hip. And the auto focus 50 SL kit lens will be a relief sometimes that I dont have to work hard for focus with my eyes.

It would seem that the lowering of prices (not seen it here in Australia) and the SL2/SL2s kilt deal has come at the right time for me. Now only if I could switch the SL2s and lens kit camera with a Leica Reporter model instead? 

    

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[trickness]

3 minutes ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Interesting commentary Trickness, and one cannot do much about it except wait. On the other hand, time seems to be an issue for me and mapping any sure future is precarious. That is why I will purchase the SL2S in a few weeks and probably kick in with the Leica offer which I have activated. I will probably go the SL Summicron 50, my first SL lens in the Alliance with all my other lenses Leica M. The SL2s is probably going to work better for me with lower light and or street work conditions and which wont require the big files. I look forward to the image stabilisation in Street work because of the movement shooting from the hip. And the auto focus 50 SL kit lens will be a relief sometimes that I dont have to work hard for focus with my eyes.

It would seem that the lowering of prices (not seen it here in Australia) and the SL2/SL2s kilt deal has come at the right time for me. Now only if I could switch the SL2s and lens kit camera with a Leica Reporter model instead? 

    

I’m holding out to see if the SL3 will be a must upgrade, or rather save some cash and get an SL2-S which would be a perfect compliment to my SL2. That Reporter is gorgeous but I suspect it won’t go anywhere near as cheaply 2nd hand as a standard SL2-S!

If I wasn’t saving for a 50 Lux SL, I’d absolutely be looking to buy the 50 SL APO Cron. What a great lens.

[Ken Abrahams]

18 minutes ago, trickness said:

I’m holding out to see if the SL3 will be a must upgrade, or rather save some cash and get an SL2-S which would be a perfect compliment to my SL2. That Reporter is gorgeous but I suspect it won’t go anywhere near as cheaply 2nd hand as a standard SL2-S!

If I wasn’t saving for a 50 Lux SL, I’d absolutely be looking to buy the 50 SL APO Cron. What a great lens.

Yes the APO SL Summicrons appear to be very good lenses and if you have ever read "Back on the Road again Robbs Adventures" posts here you will absolutely see why the SL APO Sumicrons are excellent. I am an M Lens person and never liked the bigger SL lenses but love all the excitement about these SL Summicron Apo lenses. 

I will probably get the kit lens for the SL2s which is  Summicron 50, but not APO and smaller in size compared to the Apo's. 

Best

Ken 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ken Abrahams

[trickness]

1 hour ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Yes the APO SL Summicrons appear to be very good lenses and if you have ever read "Back on the Road again Robbs Adventures" posts here you will absolutely see why the SL APO Sumicrons are excellent. I am an M Lens person and never liked the bigger SL lenses but love all the excitement about these SL Summicron Apo lenses. 

I will probably get the kit lens for the SL2s which is  Summicron 50, but not APO and smaller in size compared to the Apo's. 

Best

Ken 

I’ve got the 75 & 35 SL APOs and they are incredible - get a used 35 APO, they can be had for around $3300 USD used.

[Anakronox]

6 hours ago, trickness said:

I’ve got the 75 & 35 SL APOs and they are incredible - get a used 35 APO, they can be had for around $3300 USD used.

Absolutely this.  I grabbed a store demo APO 90 for 40% off of retail price.  My copy was sold directly by the local Leica shop and had been cleaned and certified prior to resale.  

[romaing]

9 hours ago, trickness said:

Because it’s time. They’ve been pushing the SL2 so hard the past few months, all sorts of package deals, the SL2-S has been discounted so heavily it’s within reach of the used price of the camera….plus Leica Rumors has already mentioned it was coming (likely late) this year along with M11M and Q3. With everything going on in the market from the competition, you really think its going to be another year plus before the SL3 comes?

I'm sorry but Fuji does cashback even on the new release camera. So do almost all the other company, even on cameras which are 3 months old.
There's offer on the SL2 and SL2S almost every year in France. 

About Leica Rumors they said "later this year" and on one of the last article "Expect a new SL camera (SL3?) in September – November timeframe.

Read more: https://leicarumors.com/page/3/#ixzz7uDlfY1mX "

Well if it's November, it the end of 2023 right? Si what said my dealer (one of the french Leica Store) seems accurate right?

[trickness]

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2 hours ago, romaing said:

I'm sorry but Fuji does cashback even on the new release camera. So do almost all the other company, even on cameras which are 3 months old.
There's offer on the SL2 and SL2S almost every year in France. 

About Leica Rumors they said "later this year" and on one of the last article "Expect a new SL camera (SL3?) in September – November timeframe.

Read more: https://leicarumors.com/page/3/#ixzz7uDlfY1mX "

Well if it's November, it the end of 2023 right? Si what said my dealer (one of the french Leica Store) seems accurate right?

Leica isn’t Fuji who updates a camera every year and who competes in a mass market. Steep discounts are usually not a Leica thing.

Previous poster said no SL3 until 2024. The Leica rumors article said later this year (fall 2023). Which to me is what makes sense. September-November is still 2023.

[LocalHero1953]

Leica's recent launches have been on a consistent 4 or 5 year cycle: 

• Q June 2015, Q2 March 2019
• SL Oct 2015, SL2 Nov 2019 
• M240 Sept 2012, M10, Jan 2017, M11 Jan 2022 (M8-M9-M240 were on a 3 year cycle)

So: Q3 in the first half of this year, SL3 in the second half?

[BernardC]

15 hours ago, Le Chef said:

If manufacturers lie to dealers they lose the dealer's trust and fairly soon the dealer.

That's not exactly lying. It sounds more like under-promise/over-deliver. I'm sure that Leica has a target release date, but there are always factors out of their control. It's better for them to say that the SL3 will be available in early 2024 than to promise an earlier date that might slip.

We won't know the actual release date until the official announcement. Leica might schedule a big event at HQ, but even then dealers won't know everything until the big reveal.

I wouldn't worry too much about dealers. They are selling high-margin cameras to well-funded customers, and they don't have thousands of other Leica dealers to compete with, unlike most of the big Japanese brands that are available at every camera shop, big-box store, Amazon, etc.. I'm not saying that there isn't any competition between dealers, but it's not purely based on price.

[not12bhere]

I will add this to the conversation: I have used the SL2 since day one of release and had the original SL before that. I also have the Q2. Having used it extensively during that time for photography and videography, I have found the SL2 to be less than I hoped in a couple key ways. Reliability and low light performance ( even with an all Leica lens lineup). Skipping past the autofocus without further comment, the low light image performance of the SL2 has been very frustrating.

 

I have an affinity for the design, interface, outer shell build quality and customizability of the SL2. A recent use of an equivalent modern Canon professional camera really challenged my justification as someone who shoots in available light and prefers to have a professional service available to deal with hardware failures.

 

After almost 10 years of SL system, I really hope SL3's Panasonic tech has higher QA and whatever sensor Leica obtains for it has modern low-light performance to match the beautiful and non-clinical results of their glass. 

[helged]

26 minutes ago, not12bhere said:

I will add this to the conversation: I have used the SL2 since day one of release and had the original SL before that. I also have the Q2. Having used it extensively during that time for photography and videography, I have found the SL2 to be less than I hoped in a couple key ways. Reliability and low light performance ( even with an all Leica lens lineup). Skipping past the autofocus without further comment, the low light image performance of the SL2 has been very frustrating.

 

I have an affinity for the design, interface, outer shell build quality and customizability of the SL2. A recent use of an equivalent modern Canon professional camera really challenged my justification as someone who shoots in available light and prefers to have a professional service available to deal with hardware failures.

 

After almost 10 years of SL system, I really hope SL3's Panasonic tech has higher QA and whatever sensor Leica obtains for it has modern low-light performance to match the beautiful and non-clinical results of their glass. 

If SL3 matches the low light qualities of SL2-S, plus adopting the Lumix S5II af technology, I would be more than happy. And I think Leica will. 

[LocalHero1953]

2 minutes ago, helged said:

If SL3 matches the low light qualities of SL2-S, plus adopting the Lumix S5II af technology, I would be more than happy. And I think Leica will. 

+1

[Chris Nebard]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:37 PM, Ken Abrahams said:

Interesting commentary Trickness, and one cannot do much about it except wait. On the other hand, time seems to be an issue for me and mapping any sure future is precarious. That is why I will purchase the SL2S in a few weeks and probably kick in with the Leica offer which I have activated. I will probably go the SL Summicron 50, my first SL lens in the Alliance with all my other lenses Leica M. The SL2s is probably going to work better for me with lower light and or street work conditions and which wont require the big files. I look forward to the image stabilisation in Street work because of the movement shooting from the hip. And the auto focus 50 SL kit lens will be a relief sometimes that I dont have to work hard for focus with my eyes.

It would seem that the lowering of prices (not seen it here in Australia) and the SL2/SL2s kilt deal has come at the right time for me. Now only if I could switch the SL2s and lens kit camera with a Leica Reporter model instead? 

    

Congratulations on your choice! 

The SL2-s is a great camera for street, low light, documentary and event work. Going by your post, I suspect that you will love it - particularly with those new SL asph Summicron primes and M lenses.

We can spend our lives waiting for the next best thing but, along with my old Leica Q, a few M and Sigma i-Contemporary lenses (and the VE 24-70 zoom which was my own ‘kit lens’), the SL2-s is giving me the most fulfilling experience. I will enjoy it for a number of years yet before worrying about an SL3,4,5 or whatever. Printing albums, photo books and wall/gallery prints for display, I definitely don’t want or need to join the megapixel race. 24mp is perfect for my work and pairs well with my preferred lenses. Enjoy!

 

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[Ken Abrahams]

27 minutes ago, Chris Nebard said:

Congratulations on your choice! 

The SL2-s is a great camera for street, low light, documentary and event work. Going by your post, I suspect that you will love it - particularly with those new SL asph Summicron primes and M lenses.

We can spend our lives waiting for the next best thing but, along with my old Leica Q, a few M and Sigma i-Contemporary lenses (and the VE 24-70 zoom which was my own ‘kit lens’), the SL2-s is giving me the most fulfilling experience. I will enjoy it for a number of years yet before worrying about an SL3,4,5 or whatever. Printing albums, photo books and wall/gallery prints for display, I definitely don’t want or need to join the megapixel race. 24mp is perfect for my work and pairs well with my preferred lenses. Enjoy!

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thank you Chris - lovely images 

Its good to hear others feedback (about the camera) and suited to ones own style of work. I am looking at E books myself but also I have a fairly large body of work under Street Photography theme. Over 12 years with digital monochrome cameras and the SL601. I am looking at printing large, storing and collating images in tactile way. I know this to be a wonderful experience and best for making sense of one-two three or more collections collated as a packages. So the collating will go forward and I will continue shooting into the next projects at the same time. That way the photography experience will be "whole" and I suspect very rewarding. Any way I am rambling but yes I ill get the SL2S as a compliment to my 601, M10M and MM1, Its the stabilisation and dynamic range I am after for sure plus 1 x SL 50 Summicron Asph lens my first SL lens among M lens family.

Best

Ken  

[hansvons]

5 hours ago, Chris Nebard said:

The SL2-s is a great camera for street, low light, documentary and event work

I‘m in the market for a Q2. Since the augurs claim that the Q3 will be the first to be released of the new breed, and that could happen as early as this spring, I‘m somewhat left at a loss for what to do. Buying one now and then getting the successor means losing 2K at least. I’d prefer the successor, as the Q2/SL2 sensor’s low light capabilities aren’t what I’m used to with the SL2-S. And for documentary work a powerful sensor makes life so much easier.

However, that‘s not the case with the SL2-S. And here is why: it doesn't have an Achilles heel. On the contrary. It's a mature camera that does all of the above-mentioned usecases close to perfection. I even don't miss an upgraded AF, as with people the AF works as well as one could wish for. The colour in the shadows at challenging ISOs is second to none, and even at normal ISOs, to my eyes, industry-leading. Plus, the SL2-S won't see an update for a year or so.

So, I don't see me upgrading anytime soon the SL2-S. But I’m wondering what to do with the Q2. I’d use it on business trips documenting events and other stuff when a “proper” camera with a standard zoom isn't needed, keeping the footprint low, especially for my subjects. I guess the Q2 will do that flawlessly today. I should get one now and don't feed the late-to-the-party syndrome.

[LocalHero1953]

31 minutes ago, hansvons said:

I‘m in the market for a Q2. Since the augurs claim that the Q3 will be the first to be released of the new breed, and that could happen as early as this spring, I‘m somewhat left at a loss for what to do. Buying one now and then getting the successor means losing 2K at least. I’d prefer the successor, as the Q2/SL2 sensor’s low light capabilities aren’t what I’m used to with the SL2-S. And for documentary work a powerful sensor makes life so much easier.

However, that‘s not the case with the SL2-S. And here is why: it doesn't have an Achilles heel. On the contrary. It's a mature camera that does all of the above-mentioned usecases close to perfection. I even don't miss an upgraded AF, as with people the AF works as well as one could wish for. The colour in the shadows at challenging ISOs is second to none, and even at normal ISOs, to my eyes, industry-leading. Plus, the SL2-S won't see an update for a year or so.

So, I don't see me upgrading anytime soon the SL2-S. But I’m wondering what to do with the Q2. I’d use it on business trips documenting events and other stuff when a “proper” camera with a standard zoom isn't needed, keeping the footprint low, especially for my subjects. I guess the Q2 will do that flawlessly today. I should get one now and don't feed the late-to-the-party syndrome.

I can confirm that the Q2 is not up to the performance of the SL2-S in low light conditions. I got mine a while ago and hoped that I could pair it with the SL2-S as a wide angle 'lens' for work in theatre, but good though it is, it cannot compare at the extremes in noise and colour, and its autofocus is nowhere near good enough for moving people. Its video is also limited to 30mins. It remains a great camera for other uses in better light, but, depending on early reviews, I will be looking out for a Q3 when it arrives. And thinking about a SL3 to replace my Sigma fp!

[SrMi]

Both Q2’s and SL2’s high ISO images can benefit from AI noise reduction tools like DxO’s DeepPRIME. If you are bothered by IQ at high ISO, I recommend trying it out.

[Stuart Richardson]

2 hours ago, hansvons said:

I‘m in the market for a Q2. Since the augurs claim that the Q3 will be the first to be released of the new breed, and that could happen as early as this spring, I‘m somewhat left at a loss for what to do. Buying one now and then getting the successor means losing 2K at least. I’d prefer the successor, as the Q2/SL2 sensor’s low light capabilities aren’t what I’m used to with the SL2-S. And for documentary work a powerful sensor makes life so much easier.

However, that‘s not the case with the SL2-S. And here is why: it doesn't have an Achilles heel. On the contrary. It's a mature camera that does all of the above-mentioned usecases close to perfection. I even don't miss an upgraded AF, as with people the AF works as well as one could wish for. The colour in the shadows at challenging ISOs is second to none, and even at normal ISOs, to my eyes, industry-leading. Plus, the SL2-S won't see an update for a year or so.

 

I think this is primarily about perspective. For you the Achilles heel of the SL2 is its low light performance, for me the Achilles heel of the SL2S is its low resolution. It would be great if we could get both (well...great for me at least. I am sure someone would find a reason to be unhappy), but at the moment it seems to be the tradeoff. The more moderate resolution bodies have better ISO performance and speed and the higher resolution bodies have a lot more sharpness, ability to crop or enlarge, and freedom from things like moiré. I think it is good that Leica has adopted this model. Clearly it makes some financial sense: you please more customers, attract more buyers and presumably there are enough customers who will buy both to even make it likely that they sell more that way too. My hope is that they continue this way. That would mean the SL3 with a high resolution sensor, and then an eventual SL3S taking advantage of a more moderate resolution. As for the Q, however, it seems that Leica has decided that with a fixed wide angle, the high resolution sensor serves more customers than the lower resolution would. As it is, the Q2 gets down to 24mp at around 40mm equivalent, and cropped beyond that it starts to get fairly low in resolution (6mp for 75mm). It is still possible to use 50 or 75mm for the web and prints smaller than A3, but beyond that it is not very practical. Any decent compact camera with a longer lens will outpace it at that point.

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[hansvons]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Both Q2’s and SL2’s high ISO images can benefit from AI noise reduction tools like DxO’s DeepPRIME. If you are bothered by IQ at high ISO, I recommend trying it out.

You are right, of course. And yes, if noise as such is an issue, there are tools out there to remedy that. But I'm somewhat of an oddball in that regard, as I look for "nice" noise that they call texture in cineland. Ideally, it's the modern equivalent of grain, with the virtue of giving the eye something to hold, even if the image's details are out of focus. The SL2-S yields at ISO 800 a subtle grain while showing 100% of its DR. The SL2/Q does the same at roughly ISO 320, but the texture is less sharp/pronounced than the SL2-S texture. 

[hansvons]

45 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

For you the Achilles heel of the SL2 is its low light performance, for me the Achilles heel of the SL2S is its low resolution.

Absolutely. As I mentioned, the SL2-S is made for doc and event work, basically journalism, including the occasional low-budget video production. You can, of course, shoot landscapes and portraits with it, but if you're after sharpness and cropping (and there are reasons to do that with landscape photography), 50 MP are better. But for A3 prints, I find sharp 24MP (watch your focus, get the right lens) more than sufficient. As mentioned above, I like texture and don't mind seeing what the image originated (pixels). All of that is a matter of taste, intentions, and the media presenting the images.

 

52 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

As it is, the Q2 gets down to 24mp at around 40mm equivalent, and cropped beyond that it starts to get fairly low in resolution (6mp for 75mm).

That's the Q2's concept, it's intriguing. Regarding the 35mm-equivalent crop, I find the images surprisingly vibrant and sharp, very close to what one would expect from a modern-era Leica 35mm Summicron. And that's what triggers me, as 35mm FF offers a FOV that I'm super familiar with. And even 28mm is a focal length I often use when shooting film stuff, as it's the go-to lens for long shots.