Thoughts from owners of these three 50mm options please!

[Kiwimac]

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I have narrowed my 50mm options down to these three:

 

1. Summilux f1.4 current model
2. Summicron APO f2
3. Noctilux f1.2 reissue

 

Ignore price for the purpose of this other than to note that (2) and (3) are double what (1) costs.

I cannot get access to any of them easily to try myself as the nearest physical stockist is several hundred Km from where I live. In NZ, there is no ability to return things just because you changed your mind, so that is not an option either.

I am drawn to the rendering of the Noctilux; I like the vintage look. However at that price point, I am only buying one for at least a year and I do wonder if the f1.2 might become too much of a good thing if it was the only lens.

The APO is, well, the APO. We all know how good it is but it's perhaps a little sterile. Possibly too much perfection negates character? 

The Lux is a well known quantity. Not perfect (I have seen some very angular bokeh on images taken with it from time to time) but a good blend of competence - a bit of a generalist. There seems to be a rumour that it might also be replaced by (presumably) an improved version relatively soon.

All three are available in stock new. None are available pre-owned here at the moment.

I realise that ultimately, this choice is mine but I would very much appreciate any experience others have had that might help in the process.

The lens will be going in an M10-R and if you want to see examples of previous work (mostly shot with Nikon and Olympus) look here.

[dpitt]

I would disqualify the Noctilux and the chrome Summilux for being too heavy. I think the Noctilux also blocks part of the RF. Certainly if this will be your only 50, it needs to be a real M, small, light and easy to focus. The Noctilux is not that.

Its up to others to discuss optical issues. I am more into the vintage look.
For the price of 2 or 3 you could take 1 and a nice vintage 50 (or 75 - 90) mm for portraits or for a different look.

 

[pippy]

I don't own either of the lenses you are considering but FWIW; ignoring price I'd go for the Noctilux. Considering price I'd go for the Noctilux.

Philip.

Edited January 13, 2023 by pippy

[LeicaR10]

Kiwimac,   I understand your angst on selecting one of the three 50s you mentioned.  Each 50, renders different.  I looked at your most excellent photographs and like other well intentioned photographers, I offer my two cents.  I use the Noctilux for photographs of people, mostly in B&W as it renders more character in the persons face and draws the viewer to that aspect of what I am conveying....the person.  The 50 Summilux-Asph, is most excellent and renders somewhat like a Noctilux and certainly more versatile.  I would not recommend the 50 Summilux-Asph (Black chrome edition simply due to the weight).  The standard black 50 Summilux-Asph might suit all your needs.  But if you want a different look, certainlyl the 50 Noctilux is unique and a specialized lens.  Thorsten Overgaard uses it extensively and you look at his website for his insights there. The last lens 50 f/1.2 Noctilux reissue, is soft wide open. Just like the original. After about F/4, it become more like a 50 Summilux-Asph/50 Apo Summicron.  It has a split personality.  So you have choices.  I suggest you take a look at these links to Leica lens photographs and it might help with your decision.  This might help you.  r/ Mark

50 Noctilux  Try:   https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=369&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

50 Summilux-Asph  Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=373&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

50 Noctilux (Others you need to look at the notes for each photograph to determine which 50 Noctilux was used, photographs with swirly bokeh might be f/1.2 but same effect)

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=368&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

[Jeff S]

These are personal choices, which for me depend not just on IQ, but also on ergonomics and handling.  I’ve owned the 50 Summilux ASPH for a long time, but rented the 50 APO Summicron (two versions) for comparison. Irrespective of price, I preferred the Summilux overall. The Noctilux f/1.2 holds no appeal. Others feel differently; unfortunate that you cannot demo.

Jeff

Edited January 13, 2023 by Jeff S

[Kiwimac]

Can't rent either!

One of the downsides of living in a country with a smaller population overall than Orange County!

[Jeff S]

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Yes, by demo I meant rent, loan, borrow or any other means of access other than purchase… although if you buy from a reputable dealer, even if remote, there will be a return window (and hopefully not a restocking fee, especially if trading in for another option).

Jeff

Edited January 13, 2023 by Jeff S

[lct]

5 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

The APO is, well, the APO. We all know how good it is but it's perhaps a little sterile. Possibly too much perfection negates character? 

The Lux is a well known quantity. Not perfect (I have seen some very angular bokeh on images taken with it from time to time) but a good blend of competence - a bit of a generalist.

I'd rather agree with this, both 50/2 apo and 50/1.4 asph having a modern rendering but i'm not sure to see the place of the 50/1.2 in your comparo. If you're after a softer lens i would hesitate between the 50/1.2 and a 50/1.4 v2 or v3 for instance, or a ZM 50/1.5, or even a CV 50/1.5 SC v2. I have no experience with the Leica 50/1.2 though so i cannot conclude anyway.

Edited January 13, 2023 by lct

[Kreeshp]

Your choice depends on how you like your lenses to render.  I went through a similar decision when buying my first 50mm lens.

I'm partial to highly resolving lenses so I gravitated to the 50 APO.  I'm less fond of vintage renderings so the Noctilux has never appealed to me.  In the end, I bought the 50 APO and am very happy with this choice.

The 'look' you are aiming to achieve in your work should guide your decision, and as you can read above from other users, this is a very personal preference.

[Ecar]

Had a look at your website: some very impressive work! And very diverse too; I understand why each one of these lens options would appeal to you depending on the circumstances. On this basis, I'd probably go for the all-rounder, which in my experience (I have the 3 of them) is the Summilux. 

[Kiwimac]

8 minutes ago, Ecar said:

Had a look at your website: some very impressive work! And very diverse too; I understand why each one of these lens options would appeal to you depending on the circumstances. On this basis, I'd probably go for the all-rounder, which in my experience (I have the 3 of them) is the Summilux. 

Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it. 
 

I sort of want to buy all of them..! However there are limits in life! Or so my bank manager and wife tell me. 

[evikne]

I think the Summilux is the best compromise between these lenses. Perhaps even better is the Black Chrome version, with the scalloped focus ring. It looks like a smaller version of the Noctilux f/1.2, but the rendering is similar to the ordinary Summilux ASPH.

Edited January 13, 2023 by evikne

[chasdfg]

Short answer is I would go for the 50lux as the best all-rounder. 

Rendering wise they are so different that it's really a personal question. If you like the rendering of all, I guess the question is what your use case may be (personal or paid work, travel, etc.). The 50lux and 50apo are more usable lenses across the frame and the aperture range in terms of overall performance. 

There's also the a more practical aspect which is form factor, built in hoods and tabs. The standard 50apo and 50lux have focus tabs and built in hoods and are lighter than the 50 noct 1.2. If you prefer tabs or a lighter lens in general then you can put the idea of the noct 1.2 aside. 

I went with the 50apo but not before using the 50lux as my main 50mm for several years and did a number of paid shoots with it. I would be happy with either lens. What surprised me about the 50apo is that while on paper it is not much smaller than the 50lux asph, in my hands and in use you do feel it to be a bit more nimble. The resolving power of the lens also impressed me. It can do portraits, but has a tiny bit less charm than the 50lux. 

I like the noct 1.2 but as an only 50mm I would feel quite hard pressed to give up the 50apo (or 50lux if I had one) for it. It is more of an indulgence lens (not to say the 50apo or 50lux aren't) which I feel supplements existing 50mm lenses rather than replaces them. Others might disagree so just my 2 cents.

Edited January 13, 2023 by chasdfg

[250swb]

From looking at your web site and taking into account the types of image you are leaning towards overall I say get the Summilux, if you think your clients would enjoy the more extreme shallow DOF of f/1.2 (and you can carry the weight around) get the Noctilux. The one I'd rule out immediately is the APO.

[Kiwimac]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

I think the Summilux is the best compromise between these lenses. Perhaps even better is the Black Chrome version, with the scalloped focus ring. It looks like a smaller version of the Noctilux f/1.2, but the rendering is similar to the ordinary Summilux ASPH.

It looks nice - I had read in one place that it is "identical" to the standard version in optical terms and in another that it is "slightly different".

Do we have a conclusive answer to that?!

[Kiwimac]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

From looking at your web site and taking into account the types of image you are leaning towards overall I say get the Summilux, if you think your clients would enjoy the more extreme shallow DOF of f/1.2 (and you can carry the weight around) get the Noctilux. The one I'd rule out immediately is the APO.

Thanks; what makes you rule out the APO?

[Kiwimac]

As to use, since @chasdfgmentioned that:

I do not work as a photographer so much now; recent travel issues notwithstanding, I actually organise and lead photo tours for overseas photographers visiting New Zealand more than I do professional image work now.

I do plan on travelling a lot more for personal edification. A fair bit of the work on the site was documentary work for clients like aid agencies where the scope for taking a more artistic approach is not great - they want work that shows what they do and where they do it rather than Monet-esque artworks!

I think deep inside there is a more artistic version of me wanting the opportunity to come out and play - hence my attraction to the more cinematic look of the f1.2 Noctilux images I guess. I think it is correct to say that it would not really be the best lens to use all the time. One option I considered was buying it (in case it disappears from the inventory like the Thambar did) but also grabbing something like a second hand Summicron (there is a good one at my dealer about 25% off list) so that I had a more 'sensible' lens.

Maybe the Lux is just the best combination of the two styles though.

I had best do that Lotto ticket so I can just put an order in for every Leica lens there is.

[evikne]

33 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

It looks nice - I had read in one place that it is "identical" to the standard version in optical terms and in another that it is "slightly different".

Do we have a conclusive answer to that?!

They are optically identical (same glass inside). But the BC has a 43mm filter size, as opposed to 46mm on the standard version, which might cause a bit more vignetting.

[Kiwimac]

7 minutes ago, evikne said:

They are optically identical (same glass inside). But the BC has a 43mm filter size, as opposed to 46mm on the standard version, which might cause a bit more vignetting.

Thanks. I like the look of it but I think the standard version is a more efficient design from a user perspective and I have always felt it looks very good on an M body!

If there was some optical benefit (eg better coating or something) I might consider it but if not, may as well save the $1000 or so more it costs.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Knipsknecht]

Personally, out of these three lenses I own just the 50mm Summilux. Given the price and the performance I think it's a no-brainer as long as one doesn't have very specific requirements. Yes, the Lux renders a picture in a modern way, but there still is so much "character" in the pics that they don't appear to be "sterile". The APO-Cron is - technically - a more or less perfect lens, but - personaly -  I think that you would pay a fortune for something that is barely visible in every day photography. The Lux is definitely not as "perfect", but I like it's rendering and the fact that from time to time it's nice to have a f1.4 lens.

The Noctilux is in my eyes a highly specialized lens with a very limited range of use-cases. Personally I don't like the Bokeh wide open (makes me feel getting seasick) and the price-usability ratio speaks not in favor of this lens (well, for me!). 

And if you look at the dimensions of all three lenses, they are more or less in the same league with the Noct beeing the heaviest, the Lux is the tallest and the Cron ist the most expensive😇.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Knipsknecht
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