M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Stevejack]

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Argh... I've successfully shot a few portrait sessions with the M11M over the last couple of months without the only issue being the occasional corrupt DNG. Tonight I was using the M11M in a portrait session, it made it through about a dozen shots and it froze on me. I turned it off but the screen stayed on with the spinning wheel, I had to pull the battery to reset it. It also froze on me a couple of days ago just around the house. 

Strange that I hadn't had a single freeze until two days ago. I really hope there's a new firmware in the works..... I few days back I started using IN=SD to try to salvage the odd corrupt DNG that I get when writing to the SD card only. I didn't have any freezes when writing to the SD card only, I've only started getting those since setting the camera to write to both the internal drive and the SD card. Not sure if it's related, but that's what I've experienced. I think I'll start using the internal drive only and see how I go with the freezing issues.... 

What a f*cking mess this whole debacle is. 

[dugby]

Sorry to see the freeze virus come to Perth, with the current string of 41C days already getting us hot under the collar.

I know that dreaded Leica failure feeling when my Digilux 2 sensor died in 2006, the round trip Perth - Germany - Perth was 5 months.

Hope you can work out a local resolution with CES.

[Stevejack]

14 hours ago, dugby said:

Sorry to see the freeze virus come to Perth, with the current string of 41C days already getting us hot under the collar.

I know that dreaded Leica failure feeling when my Digilux 2 sensor died in 2006, the round trip Perth - Germany - Perth was 5 months.

Hope you can work out a local resolution with CES.

My M11 is still on the original 1.2 firmware and I have no issues at all there. 

The M11M that I bought came with the 2.2 firmware and it has these problems. I purchased the M11M used, so I can't return it unfortunately.

It's hard to say whether it's a firmware issue or a hardware issue, but not everyone is having these problems -  and some are using the same SD cars with different results so it's hard to nail it down. It's frustrating but I'm holding out hope that firmware will fix it one day... it's sure taking them a long time though.

I could send it back to Leica but unless I they come out and state that they know the root cause, and have a fix for it, I don't see the point. It could be gone for months and come back with the same problems. I can't reproduce it reliably so someone testing the camera would likely not even encounter the issue. 

 

[Henners]

Picked up my M11 to grab 3 photos of my wife when she was doing something and got the RROD (red ring of death) on the back screen, ended up having to pull the battery and on re-inserting checked the photos but it hadn't saved any of them. Not ideal... those memories are lost forever, thanks Leica.

It's a shame I'm left with a constant fear that when I take a photo that I might not actually have it. I may be shooting a wedding in a months time and this has me quite concerned about using the M11 for it.

Could it be down to recording GPS location, connection with your phone etc. Possibly an Android or Apple thing where the camera is waiting on gps data to write to the exif or something like that. I'm just chucking ideas out.

I have a Pixel 7 with Android 14 and GPS turned on with the camera connectivity on performance mode.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Henners

[hdmesa]

16 hours ago, Stevejack said:

My M11 is still on the original 1.2 firmware and I have no issues at all there. 

The M11M that I bought came with the 2.2 firmware and it has these problems. I purchased the M11M used, so I can't return it unfortunately.

It's hard to say whether it's a firmware issue or a hardware issue, but not everyone is having these problems -  and some are using the same SD cars with different results so it's hard to nail it down. It's frustrating but I'm holding out hope that firmware will fix it one day... it's sure taking them a long time though.

I could send it back to Leica but unless I they come out and state that they know the root cause, and have a fix for it, I don't see the point. It could be gone for months and come back with the same problems. I can't reproduce it reliably so someone testing the camera would likely not even encounter the issue. 

 

2.02 not 2.2.

My M11M had no freezes or unreadable DNGs until 2.02, and it's now had both. This firmware was a major step backward for me. I'm surprised they have not released an update yet. Freezes are one thing, but loosing the shot forever is much, much worse. I can't think of anything worse short of the cameras literally catching on fire and burning to a crisp.

[Stevejack]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

2.02 not 2.2.

My M11M had no freezes or unreadable DNGs until 2.02, and it's now had both. This firmware was a major step backward for me. I'm surprised they have not released an update yet. Freezes are one thing, but loosing the shot forever is much, much worse. I can't think of anything worse short of the cameras literally catching on fire and burning to a crisp.

Sorry yes 2.02

I agree - losing photos is the number one thing that a camera absolutely cannot be responsible for. As you say it's far worse than a lockup, because you think you have the shot and don't realise it's not there until you've downloaded the file from the card after the session is over. No chance to recognise an issue and re-take it.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Stevejack

[bkphoto]

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Nothing short of embarrassing for Leica. What is going on over there?

[Smogg]

I assume that now all the efforts of the only programmer😂 in the company are aimed at debugging the firmware of the upcoming Leica SL3. Therefore, fixing problems with M11 is not a top priority

[gotium]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:19 PM, hdmesa said:

My M11M had no freezes or unreadable DNGs until 2.02, and it's now had both...

Wow that's not good. Unreadable DNGs is a deal-killer, no-go. I'd hold off on this M11 platform until and unless this is fixed. 

[hdmesa]

46 minutes ago, gotium said:

Wow that's not good. Unreadable DNGs is a deal-killer, no-go. I'd hold off on this M11 platform until and unless this is fixed. 

I think it may be related to one of the new features like "dust protection" while using a non 6-bit coded lens. I've reset the camera and set it back up conservatively – reformatted SD card with SD Formatter on the computer; DNG only to IN+SD; no user profiles; and dust protection off. Will see if I have any further issues.

[lct]

For those interested i set dust protection to on for coded lenses and to off for uncoded ones through different user profiles with no problem whatsoever.

[bkphoto]

It has nothing to do with lens coding.

[lct]

4 hours ago, bkphoto said:

It has nothing to do with lens coding.

As explained above or elsewhere, i could not use some of my uncoded LTM to M adapters before firmware 2.0.2, due to the shutter being closed the way dust protection was implemented. Since firmware 2.0.2, i just toggle off dust protection for some uncoded lenses and/or adapters, while keeping it on for coded lenses and adapters. Excellent firmware for me. YMMV.

[lct]

Interesting thread there.
4 case reports so far. Unsure if that is the "debacle" Leica is accused for.
Just kidding but a case report did draw my attention.
The colleague in question got freezes while keeping dust protection on with uncoded lenses if i read well.
Reminds me of other colleagues insisting on using uncoded lenses under lens detection auto a couple months ago.
Is that not giving contradictory orders to the camera?
When a lens is uncoded, the camera reads it as if there is no lens mounted and it closes the shutter to avoid dust ingression accordingly.
It is to prevent this effect that firmware 2.0.2 allows to toggle dust protection on and off, as i understand it.
I personally toggle it off with uncoded lenses and i wonder if it is a reason why i have no freeze issues, among others.
Any idea?

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Interesting thread there.
4 case reports so far. Unsure if that is the "debacle" Leica is accused for.
Just kidding but a case report did draw my attention.
The colleague in question got freezes while keeping dust protection on with uncoded lenses if i read well.
Reminds me of other colleagues insisting on using uncoded lenses under lens detection auto a couple months ago.
Is that not giving contradictory orders to the camera?
When a lens is uncoded, the camera reads it as if there is no lens mounted and it closes the shutter to avoid dust ingression accordingly.
It is to prevent this effect that firmware 2.0.2 allows to toggle dust protection on and off, as i understand it.
I personally toggle it off with uncoded lenses and i wonder if it is a reason why i have no freeze issues, among others.
Any idea?

For me, I was indeed using an uncoded lens with dust protection on when I had both a corrupted DNG and a few hours later, a freeze requiring removal of the battery; however, I was using a manual M lens profile and not Auto.

Edited February 16, 2024 by hdmesa

[Stevejack]

4 hours ago, lct said:

Interesting thread there.
4 case reports so far. Unsure if that is the "debacle" Leica is accused for.
Just kidding but a case report did draw my attention.
The colleague in question got freezes while keeping dust protection on with uncoded lenses if i read well.
Reminds me of other colleagues insisting on using uncoded lenses under lens detection auto a couple months ago.
Is that not giving contradictory orders to the camera?
When a lens is uncoded, the camera reads it as if there is no lens mounted and it closes the shutter to avoid dust ingression accordingly.
It is to prevent this effect that firmware 2.0.2 allows to toggle dust protection on and off, as i understand it.
I personally toggle it off with uncoded lenses and i wonder if it is a reason why i have no freeze issues, among others.
Any idea?

I got a freeze on 2.02 with the Leica 50mm APO attached. Don't think it's related exclusively to uncoded lenses. 

[lct]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

For me, I was indeed using an uncoded lens with dust protection on when I had both a corrupted DNG and a few hours later, a freeze requiring removal of the battery; however, I was using a manual M lens profile and not Auto.

Since firmware 2.0.2 or perhaps 2.0.1, the camera does not stay in auto detection mode with uncoded lenses any more. When selecting auto detection, the camera "jumps" itself to manual detection. This way, a cause of contradictory or conflicting order seems to be eliminated. Not exactly what i was expecting but it works apparently.  Now there is another possible cause since firmware 2.0.1 or 2.0.2, i mean dust protection when it is set to on with uncoded lenses. Would be interesting to set it to off with same lenses in order to check if freezes can be avoided this way.

[hdmesa]

12 minutes ago, lct said:

Since firmware 2.0.2 or perhaps 2.0.1, the camera does not stay in auto detection mode with uncoded lenses any more. When selecting auto detection, the camera "jumps" itself to manual detection. This way, a cause of contradictory or conflicting order seems to be eliminated. Not exactly what i was expecting but it works apparently.  Now there is another possible cause since firmware 2.0.1 or 2.0.2, i mean dust protection when it is set to on with uncoded lenses. Would be interesting to set it to off with same lenses in order to check if freezes can be avoided this way.

I haven't had a freeze or DNG issue since resetting the camera, but there were several other settings I changed, too. I'm going to try changing those settings back to what I originally had one by one and using it that way for a while with each to see if I can provoke a freeze:

• Turning dust protection back on (currently off)
• Using manual M profile (currently lens detection is off)
• Auto minimum shutter speed set to formula (currently set to a fixed value)
• Storage set to DNG+JPEG to IN=SD (currently set to DNG only to IN=SD)
• Saving a few user profiles (currently have none)

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by hdmesa

[colint544]

Imagine the scenario of someone thinking of buying his or her first ever Leica. An M11. The potential buyer goes online to do a bit of research, and ends up stumbling on this 93 page long thread. They'd end up drawing the conclusion that operating the camera was harder than getting men to the moon in 1969.

It seems Leica themselves are working hard on the next firmware upgrade. They've started a case collection thread expressly asking for feedback on freezes with the current firmware. The thread has been up for three days now, and it's only had six replies.

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[Edax]

10 minutes ago, colint544 said:

Imagine the scenario of someone thinking of buying his or her first ever Leica. An M11. The potential buyer goes online to do a bit of research, and ends up stumbling on this 93 page long thread. They'd end up drawing the conclusion that operating the camera was harder than getting men to the moon in 1969.

It seems Leica themselves are working hard on the next firmware upgrade. They've started a case collection thread expressly asking for feedback on freezes with the current firmware. The thread has been up for three days now, and it's only had six replies.

I bought the M11-P with comforting info from this forum that lockups were mostly history after firmware 1.6.1.

If there would have info at that moment that people are loosing pictures through corrupt, unreadable .DNG files (I am now one of the victims myself), no I would never have bought it.

The focus should be on solving this COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE corrupted .DNG issue, not on the residual lockups. That seems/feels now like a decoy.