M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[hdmesa]

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1 hour ago, Qlan said:

That’s not what hdmesa is saying. This setting he’s proposing is only for uncoded lenses, not all lenses. 

Thanks, yes. Those were the options I’d like strictly for uncoded.

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[marchyman]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:00 AM, lct said:

Failing which the lens will not be recognized by the camera which cannot read the metadata you refer to. May i ask where those metadata come from?

Ahhh... I don't really care if the camera knows the specific lens attached.  That is based upon my belief that the lens type is used for two purposes: 1) metadata; and 2) image correction for creating jpegs and in-camera image views.  Perhaps my belief is incorrect and I should care.

I never shoot jpeg.  I don't care if the review I see when using the play button is 100% accurate as I'm going to post process the image to something else, anyway.  If I review in camera I'm more interested in the histogram.   And I want accurate metadata, not this-is-a-close-approximation metadata.

I use a scrip to copy files from camera memory card to computer and verify the copy is correct.   My script has an option to update DNG metadata for the C Biogon using ExifTool.  Once the files are on my computer I import into Lightroom.  Lightroom is configured to use the lens metadata to apply lens corrections using Adobe's profile for that lens.

I want to emphasize that this works for me.  I don't expect it to work for anyone else.  The only reason I brought it up was in response to "uncoded lens cause hangs".  Perhaps.  But my uncoded lens on my camera doesn't.  Or hasn't yet, anyway.  The camera is only about a month old.

[lct]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Thanks, yes. Those were the options I’d like strictly for uncoded.

Thank you for this precision. As far as uncoded lenses are concerned, the camera keeps in memory the last Leica lens profile entered manually since lens detection off has been selected. Would this feature be kept with your "always off" setting? Just to understand.

[lct]

14 minutes ago, marchyman said:

The only reason I brought it up was in response to "uncoded lens cause hangs".  Perhaps.  But my uncoded lens on my camera doesn't.

Neither do my ones. 

[hdmesa]

36 minutes ago, lct said:

Thank you for this precision. As far as uncoded lenses are concerned, the camera keeps in memory the last Leica lens profile entered manually since lens detection off has been selected. Would this feature be kept with your "always off" setting? Just to understand.

Yes, that was one of the options I listed in the three bullet points (for it to operate as it does now).

That said, I do think it would be nice to have a global, full-time lens detection "Disabled" option for those of us that do not want our 6-bit lenses to use a profile. This would not replace anything currently in the menu, so you could continue to use coded or uncoded lenses as you have been.

[lct]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

I do think it would be nice to have a global, full-time lens detection "Disabled" option for those of us that do not want our 6-bit lenses to use a profile

Would you call it the "Cosina option"? Just kidding but it will be difficult to argue such an option before Leica i suspect. A less ambitious and perhaps more realistic option could consist in greying or otherwise disabling lens detection auto when an uncoded lens is mounted, as i suggested above. User errors could be avoided this way and Cosina or other non-Leica lens users could still hand-code their lenses or enter a lens profile for them through the lens detection menu.

[DadDadDaddyo]

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This thread has taken a positive turn of late, and for that, I'm grateful to all the contributors. 

So, being a need-to-find-out-for-myself kind of guy (gee, is that stove actually hot?), I put the behaviors described to a test.

My 3 main go-to M lenses, the Summicron 35, the Summilux 50, and the Macro Elmar 90, are each 6-bit encoded. As a result, under firmware 1.6.1, I've been blithely changing out lenses and grooving on the autodetection (guess I'm easily thrilled).

So for scarey fun, I broke out my battered, old, trusty and crusty Hektor 135 f/ 4.5, an example of the M-mount version of that long-focus lens. Man it really looks as if it's been to the wars... 

Sure enough, having never set a profile manually, it showed up as UNENCODED.

So, into the menu! Grabbed the setting for a 135 f/4 (close enough). And then, lo, and behold! All worked exactly as described above. 

Interestingly, the option to set a manual lens profile was unavailable while I had any 6-bit lens mounted. I had to mount that unencoded lens to be able to access the setting. Again, this is the behavior as accurately described over the course of this Monumental Thread (I hesitate to call it a Titanic Thread, I mean, really, why poke the dragon with a stick?)

Then, I mounted another old beat-up veteran, an Elmar-M 90 f/4, and sure enough, rather than UNENCODED, it showed up as the 135 for which I had just manually set the profile. 

Now, see, I've only had one freeze since getting the M11 a month or two ago, and that was under ver. 1.6, after I stabbed at the Play button immediately after moving the power switch to On without waiting for the power up cycle to complete. I've had no freezes yet under 1.6.1 (though I'm still loathe to poke that dragon, y'know, so I switch the camera on deliberately and bloody well wait for the cycle to clear before jabbing any buttons)

But still, all of this has given me the impression that this user community has iterated itself closer and closer to something that accurately encompasses known facts and behaviors. 

Very good, User Community! Way to go! And thanks. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by DadDadDaddyo

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Would you call it the "Cosina option"? Just kidding but it will be difficult to argue such an option before Leica i suspect...

😂 Sure, that sounds good! Leica should have an incentive to further develop at least a few options for uncoded lenses since every Leica lens made before 2006 is uncoded. I think that would mean there are more uncoded Leica lenses in circulation than coded.

2 hours ago, lct said:

...A less ambitious and perhaps more realistic option could consist in greying or otherwise disabling lens detection auto when an uncoded lens is mounted, as i suggested above. User errors could be avoided this way and Cosina or other non-Leica lens users could still hand-code their lenses or enter a lens profile for them through the lens detection menu.

With an uncoded lens attached, you can change it to Auto, but the camera does not accept it – it bounces back to the manual M profile. So yes, graying out Auto when an uncoded lens attached would be helpful, because as it is now, the user gets the impression that Auto can be selected and expected to actually do something when an uncoded lens is attached. The only function of the Auto setting is to change Lens Detection back to Auto after having set it to Off.

They just need to fix "Uncoded", which currently has a bug under 1.6.1 that will cause random freezes at startup with an uncoded lens attached. There's no logical reason the camera has to function differently when it says "Uncoded" versus a manual profile versus "Off".

[hdmesa]

Took me four M11s to get one that worked without freezing, so I understand this pain. Issue discussed at the 1:40 mark:

 

[Qlan]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Took me four M11s to get one that worked without freezing, so I understand this pain. Issue discussed at the 1:40 mark:

 

Doesn't look like the same issue as ours... This is more serious, seems like there are still issues with either the hardware or software.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Qlan

[hdmesa]

24 minutes ago, Qlan said:

Doesn't look like the same issue as ours... This is more serious, seems like there are still issues with either the hardware or software.

Agreed, different issue but could be something we could start seeing pop up after 15K shots or more. Hopefully not.

[Antonio Russell]

My M11 froze again this weekend..... had to pull the battery... thankfully it restarted OK but dissapointed the camera keeps crashing. It will be ok for a while and then not.

[hdmesa]

25 minutes ago, Antonio Russell said:

My M11 froze again this weekend..... had to pull the battery... thankfully it restarted OK but dissapointed the camera keeps crashing. It will be ok for a while and then not.

Sorry to hear that. Was it with a Leica 6-bit coded lens or an uncoded lens? Just checking since Lens Detections seems to be one of the last sources of issues.

[jakontil]

5 hours ago, Antonio Russell said:

My M11 froze again this weekend..... had to pull the battery... thankfully it restarted OK but dissapointed the camera keeps crashing. It will be ok for a while and then not.

It happened to me too.. may be i should use the external charger in a way it forces the camera to hard reboot instead of plugging it through usb c for charging and file transfer if that makes sense

Edited April 12, 2023 by jakontil

[Antonio Russell]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Sorry to hear that. Was it with a Leica 6-bit coded lens or an uncoded lens? Just checking since Lens Detections seems to be one of the last sources of issues.

With a Leica 6 bit coded lens.

[malko]

I, too, spoke too soon. Had two freezes during a day trip last week. Both times immediately after removing the thumb grip and attaching the Visoflex 2. I didn’t really pay attention, but it’s possible that the camera was on when I attached the Viso - seems like it doesn’t like that. 

[lldd]

It will be interesting to see if the M11M struggles with these same issues.

[Mateusz]

10 hours ago, malko said:

I, too, spoke too soon. Had two freezes during a day trip last week. Both times immediately after removing the thumb grip and attaching the Visoflex 2. I didn’t really pay attention, but it’s possible that the camera was on when I attached the Viso - seems like it doesn’t like that. 

Today I also had a lockup during client session. It happened while i was shooting with the back screen off. 

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[Jan1985]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb malko:

I, too, spoke too soon. Had two freezes during a day trip last week. Both times immediately after removing the thumb grip and attaching the Visoflex 2. I didn’t really pay attention, but it’s possible that the camera was on when I attached the Viso - seems like it doesn’t like that. 

Detaching the Viso while the M11 is on is something that can lead to damages on the boards. My M11 was 2 months at customer care in Wetzler because of a damaged insulator board. It seemed that caused by a short circuit during detachment of the Viso. Happily the Viso itself was ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[malko]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Jan1985:

Detaching the Viso while the M11 is on is something that can lead to damages on the boards. My M11 was 2 months at customer care in Wetzler because of a damaged insulator board. It seemed that caused by a short circuit during detachment of the Viso. Happily the Viso itself was ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this - I’ll be paying extra close attention to always turn off the camera before attaching or removing the Visoflex 2