MP user, new M6?

[Winedemonium]

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Aesthetics drive a lot of this. I love the MP look. Others will love and prefer this classic "Leitz" age looking M6. Let's park that for a minute. 

There's some mechanical irony here because my workhorse film camera was an M6 classic, funnily enough a Leitz-badged one. I dreamed of the MP because of the greater flare resistance in the viewfinder. Go figure. This 2022 Leitz M6 may offer some practical advantages over my MPs. (I use the MP today).

So, my two questions for users here...

Is there anything in the reconfigured camera, in practice that might make you prefer it over an MP? Real user experiences especially valuable here as these cameras get into users' hands.

Secondly, we have seen some small minor improvements to the MP since 2003. Presuming then that at some point the MP production continues but inherits all the mechanical DNA of the 2022 M6, returning then to the aesthetic question, which would you prefer - new M6 or new MP? (A less practical question, but I'm just curious). 

(FWIW, I don't feel the urge to buy the M6 v2022 - I love my MPs. But I'm thrilled that Leica continues to invest / respond to demand for the film M. We are not talking the R&D step from M240 to M10 here, but film doesn't need that. The fact that Leica has put R&D money here at all bodes well for Leica film users, and I'm so happy to see them do it).

 

[shirubadanieru]

Nop. If M6 was 1000US or so cheaper maybe yes, with this price there’s no way I’d get an M6 looking camera over the MP/MA

[TomB_tx]

Well, I prefer the looks of an M6 - but then I liked the M4 better than the M3 when I bought mine in 1968 when the dealer had new ones of both models at the same price. I never considered an MP when my 1985 M6 does just fine. I did finally upgrade the finder on my M6 - but used it for decades without complaint - until I read all the complaints on this forum... The upgraded finder is an improvement.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, Winedemonium said:

Is there anything in the reconfigured camera, in practice that might make you prefer it over an MP? 

No.

The only practical differences between the MP and the new M6 are the angled rewind crank and the articulated film advance lever.  The black paint finishes and engravings are aesthetic differences only so I'm going to ignore those for now.   

I have both an M-A and an M4 and they have a similar set of practical differences - the advance lever and the rewind crank.  While I love my M4, the advance lever and the rewind crank are not my favorites - I definitely prefer those on the M-A.  So for that reason alone, I would not replace an MP with the new M6.  Factoring in aesthetics, I prefer the MP's black enamel finish and its lack of prominent Leica/Leitz logos.

So, for me, the MP wins on both practical and aesthetic fronts.  

[mediumformula]

The reissue M6 weighs 575g accordion to the spec sheet and the MP is listed at approximately 585g.  The only improvement I can see with the new M6 is a weight savings of approximately 10g, which is negligible. 

The other possible advantage of the new M6 is that it has newly sourced electronic components which might provide a longer window of repairablity from Leica going forward than the MP which presumably is using legacy components that have a finite supply unless they can retrofit new M6 electronics into an MP.  I haven't heard whether or not that is possible but maybe someday we will find out. 

OP are you suggesting that new MPs going forward will use the newly sourced M6 electronics?  Has Leica insinuated this? 

I prefer the rewind knob and advance lever on the MP.  I also prefer the aesthetics of the MP.  Regardless, I think the new M6 is cool and I'm happy to see Leica committing to film cameras. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by mediumformula

[raizans]

Years ago, I decided to pay a lot more for an MP instead of an M6 just because I don't like the red dot. So yeah, there's no way I'd pay the same price.  

I would however consider buying a Leica M4 reissue because sometimes the angled rewind crank is nice to have. The plastic film advance lever is easier to pull out, but it often scratches up the top plate with use, so I would replace that with a metal lever.

Edited October 22, 2022 by raizans

[Winedemonium]

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3 hours ago, mediumformula said:

The other possible advantage of the new M6 is that it has newly sourced electronic components which might provide a longer window of repairablity from Leica going forward than the MP which presumably is using legacy components that have a finite supply unless they can retrofit new M6 electronics into an MP.  I haven't heard whether or not that is possible but maybe someday we will find out. 

OP are you suggesting that new MPs going forward will use the newly sourced M6 electronics?  Has Leica insinuated this? 

No insinuation, and I have no info on that. But a supply of legacy electronic components may be shorter than the supply availability of the new ones, so I would at least imagine they will have considered "upgrading" MPs to the new ones at some point, and that the engineers will have considered this question. If it's modular and interchangeable/retrofitable then the solution is perfect. Time will tell.

 

In any case the film M line continues, which is great news. 

[jakontil]

I dont need the angled rewinder knob, and plasticky film advance, so a no

[Matlock]

7 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

 I did finally upgrade the finder on my M6 - but used it for decades without complaint - until I read all the complaints on this forum... The upgraded finder is an improvement.

Probably one of the most relevant comments, this forum has a lot to answer for in the furthering of dissatisfaction with existing models. I have an original M6 and a M7 that has been upgraded, yes the upgrade is better but not a huge improvement and I have never experienced the dreaded flare with my M6.

[250swb]

3 hours ago, mediumformula said:

 

OP are you suggesting that new MPs going forward will use the newly sourced M6 electronics?  Has Leica insinuated this? 

 

Has Leica insinuated the electronics in the M6 are brand new? They say the electronics are new for the M6, well they are bound to be, but new for the M6, not that they are brand new never before used electronics. By definition they can't repair old M6 light meters anymore, so whatever they put in is going to be 'new', and they have a light meter in the MP that shows no sign of unreliability or age related decline. I think these 'new' electronics are a case of reading the words but not reading the meaning given all other sources say the new M6 is based internally on the MP.

[Ouroboros]

As a user of an MP for the pat 16 years, if I wanted another new film M I’d buy an M-A rather than an M6 reissue.  Operationally and aesthetically the MP is what I’m used to.

For new buyers, the new M6 offers a third choice where previously there were two, but the angled rewind crank, two-piece advance lever and red dot of the M6 are three of the reasons why I chose my MP in the first place and these things would irritate me. 
 

The point for me is that I can put my son’s black M-A next to my MP, and, despite the black paint and built-in light meter of the MP, it would be tough to decide which one I’d buy now if I were a new buyer again.  I do know I would not consider the new M6 against either of them.  
 

A silver chrome M6 option is strangely absent but I hope the new camera sells well.

 

[FrozenInTime]

I sold my long served M6 about a year ago, with the long term intention of buying a second M-A, possibly silver this time.

The new M6 does not change that, though viewfinder parity is a good improvement, I prefer the all metal wind lever, the shorter shutter release depth and the metal film reminder over the plastic ISO dial. 

I similarly don't miss the angled rewind ; while it can be faster, one slip of the hand off the small crank and the film springs back and unwinds.

So MP vs. M6, it still seems the MP is the flagship camera despite currently being priced lower than the M6.

[MarkP]

After pages and pages of discussion about the new M6 and perhaps an entry level price tag (what were we thinking 🙄?) what we have is, for all intents and purposes, an MP with new (sorry old) clothes.  So, as mentioned above, it is purely a decision of aesthetics, rewind crank vs knob, film advance lever, finish and availability.  I think the future supply of MP electronics argument is spurious.

I have an M3, M7 and CL. I'd next get a silver MP (I don't like black paint) or black M4-P, as I'd like another body with 28mm framelines.

Edited October 22, 2022 by MarkP

[Lumenlabs]

I like the aesthetics better on the MP, but I don't like black paint. I wish Leica would make a black MP with the same matte black paint as on the M6, or bring back black chrome as an option again.

[MarkP]

31 minutes ago, Lumenlabs said:

I like the aesthetics better on the MP, but I don't like black paint. I wish Leica would make a black MP with the same matte black paint as on the M6, or bring back black chrome as an option again.

I want a black chrome MP as I really like how black chrome gently silvers with wear.
Was never keen on black paint brassing but I'm obviously in a minority.

[Matlock]

9 minutes ago, MarkP said:

I want a black chrome MP as I really like how black chrome gently silvers with wear.
Was never keen on black paint brassing but I'm obviously in a minority.

Well Black Chrome will soon be unavailable for any Leica due to environmental concerns.

[250swb]

11 hours ago, Winedemonium said:

This 2022 Leitz M6 may offer some practical advantages over my MPs. (I use the MP today).

 

Pages 78 and 79 from the (old) Leica MP owners manual. It seems everybody has already had their chance to emulate a new M6 and missed it.

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[MarkP]

50 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Well Black Chrome will soon be unavailable for any Leica due to environmental concerns.

I didn’t know that. Will have to get an M4-P then 🙂

[malligator]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

Has Leica insinuated the electronics in the M6 are brand new? They say the electronics are new for the M6, well they are bound to be, but new for the M6, not that they are brand new never before used electronics. By definition they can't repair old M6 light meters anymore, so whatever they put in is going to be 'new', and they have a light meter in the MP that shows no sign of unreliability or age related decline. I think these 'new' electronics are a case of reading the words but not reading the meaning given all other sources say the new M6 is based internally on the MP.

I'm going with this. I found some pics of the original M6 main board at the link below:

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/423705-leica-mp-differences/

The original M6 had relatively modern electronics with flexible boards and surface mount components. However, you can see the very old, obsolete Mitsubishi 16-bit CPU in one or two of the photos. They'll not be getting those ever again. It's a safe bet it's been replaced with an FPGA.

My gut feel is that the electronics for the new M6 are being built at the same place using the same standard components as the digital M's and most likely the current MPs. I'd be very surprised to find out that the M6 isn't using the same boards as the MP.

Edited October 22, 2022 by malligator

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[SJH]

I started my Leica journey with an M6 TTL about 5 years ago (almost mint £1,500!!) but I ended up with a new MP film wise, I just preferred the metal advance lever and rewind at the time and it's silver chrome.  I might add the new M6 just for something different (one with B&W and one Colour, I wouldn't though swap the MP for the M6.

I really applaud Leica for doing this but ultimately it's an MP with M6 clothes!! However, I've already added the new 35mm 1.4 steel rim remake and one arrives on Monday, perfect for my Chrome MP and M11!!