New Leica 100-400 and 105

[SJH]

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A possible new Leica 100-400 and 105 could be on the way along the same lines as the 24-70 2.8 collaboration, with teleconverters.

https://leicarumors.com/2022/10/06/leica-l-mount-lens-rumors-100-400mm-105mm-and-teleconverters.aspx/

 

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[jaapv]

That could well be, as the APO-extenders R are a good platform to refine, and the basic 100-400 design is already there for MTF by Panasonic, but I see a bit of a too late to the party and too expensive problem. Sigma and Panasonic have more or less cornered that section of the market. Leicarumors is not always the most reliable of sources, though

[Paul2660]

It will be interesting if the 1.4 converter will work with the 90-280. Hopefully if Leica makes it this will be possible. 
 

Paul

[Virob]

If they do a rebranding/mod of the sigma 105 macro, I wonder if it will retain the aperture ring?

Wish Leica would concentrate on bringing to market the 21/2 they made a big official deal about 4 years ago.

[Simone_DF]

So basically more rebadging 

[MarkP]

10 hours ago, Paul2660 said:

It will be interesting if the 1.4 converter will work with the 90-280. Hopefully if Leica makes it this will be possible. 
 

Paul

Interesting to see if a 1.4 APO-Converter-L would work with the 24-90.

Accepting the drop of aperture, that would give me a 16-35 and 35-125 😄
The overlap of 24-35 is somewhat annoying at times.  

Edited October 10, 2022 by MarkP

[SJH]

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2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

So basically more rebadging 

Exactly but given they're moving to a 100-400 I hope that's an indication of where the AF is going for the SL3 and S2R from Panasonic - for me it's pretty reasonable now after the firmware updates but given how YouTube is so obsessed with AF tracking etc (what else can they use now to get quick views given sensor tech) I suspect these camera's are going to need a pretty good update to avoid the fate of the CL recently. 

[Kim Dahl]

I feel pretty confident that the next Leica SL3 has a new AF system. I have been in doubt about Leica and SL but now believe that Leica is betting hard on SL. So let's hope it succeeds.

[BernardC]

12 hours ago, Virob said:

Wish Leica would concentrate on bringing to market the 21/2 they made a big official deal about 4 years ago.

I don't think that sub-contracted optics interfere with in-house manufacturing. I don't see how they could do so in any meaningful way. Sure, it's a bit more work for optical validation and testing, but I doubt that these are choke points for increased German production.

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

So basically more rebadging

The linked article says otherwise, but it's unavoidable that some people will never be convinced. It's been that way for almost 100 years now!

[Simone_DF]

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

The linked article says otherwise, but it's unavoidable that some people will never be convinced. It's been that way for almost 100 years now!

Since when Leica Rumors is a reputable source? But hey, I'll be happy to be proven wrong if these two lenses made in Japan by Sigma will show substantial differences from the same Sigmas you can order at 1/4th of the price. In that case, more choice for us.

One - potential - difference that may be worth the price for some is the stabilization. My understanding is that on the SL you cannot have both IBIS and OIS at the same time for non-Leica lenses, but that shouldn't be a problem with the Leica version.

[bherman01545]

Even with Leica lenses with OIS, the lens and body stabilization is not ‘additive’ as in both are employed at the same time.

For example with my Leica 90-280, at the shorter end of the range, IBIS maybe employed, while at the 150-280 end, OIS takes over. This example is somewhat arbitrary, but you get the idea.

There is (depending on the lens and focal length) one will supersede the other. This is per the Leica Tech Rep

-Brad

[MediaFotografie]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb bherman01545:

Even with Leica lenses with OIS, the lens and body stabilization is not ‘additive’ as in both are employed at the same time.

For example with my Leica 90-280, at the shorter end of the range, IBIS maybe employed, while at the 150-280 end, OIS takes over. This example is somewhat arbitrary, but you get the idea.

There is (depending on the lens and focal length) one will supersede the other. This is per the Leica Tech Rep

Hi Brad,

that's very interesting; I asked Leica several times and get different answers - yours makes much sense!

So this is different to Nikon (and others), who really used both, IBIS and OIS at the same time?

 

thomas 

[bherman01545]

Which is precisely why I had asked Leica how their IBIS/OIS worked

[BernardC]

16 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Since when Leica Rumors is a reputable source? But hey, I'll be happy to be proven wrong if these two lenses made in Japan by Sigma will show substantial differences from the same Sigmas you can order at 1/4th of the price. In that case, more choice for us.

LR is the only source for this rumour so far, at least in English. They are usually fairly accurate, although we obviously will have to wait for official announcements to see if these lenses make it to production.

[Simone_DF]

17 hours ago, bherman01545 said:

Even with Leica lenses with OIS, the lens and body stabilization is not ‘additive’ as in both are employed at the same time.

For example with my Leica 90-280, at the shorter end of the range, IBIS maybe employed, while at the 150-280 end, OIS takes over. This example is somewhat arbitrary, but you get the idea.

There is (depending on the lens and focal length) one will supersede the other. This is per the Leica Tech Rep

Really? I'm very surprised to hear that. Panasonic has a different approach, see the link. Long story short, you can have, depending on supported lenses and your needs, IBIS only, OIS only, Dual Stabilization (IBIS + OIS)

https://eng-ca.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/56565/~/how-to-set-the-image-stabilizer.---lumix-s-series

Edited October 11, 2022 by Simone_DF

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Really? I'm very surprised to hear that. Panasonic has a different approach, see the link. Long story short, you can have, depending on supported lenses and your needs, IBIS only, OIS only, Dual Stabilization (IBIS + OIS)

https://eng-ca.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/56565/~/how-to-set-the-image-stabilizer.---lumix-s-series

Interesting. I wonder if they ever use both systems at the same time. It must be a non-trivial task to get the coordination just right.

The way I understand it, in-body IS works better at higher frequencies and lower amplitudes, whereas lens (optical) IS works better at higher amplitudes and lower frequencies. That's why OIS is generally offered on long lenses where movement is large (because it's magnified), but happens relatively slowly. In-body systems are better at wide angles where inertia is lower (which leads to higher frequencies), but movement might be limited to a few pixels. Maybe there's some overlap where a combination of both systems has some marginal advantage. I imagine that they implement a frequency cut-off, with lower frequencies going to OIS and higher frequencies going to IBIS.

It makes sense that neither company supports the use of both systems with lenses from other brands. It could lead to weird results where some frequencies are not compensated, while others are double-compensated. It's a lot easier to hand-over all stabilization functions to the lens' firmware (when available).

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

It makes sense that neither company supports the use of both systems with lenses from other brands. It could lead to weird results where some frequencies are not compensated, while others are double-compensated. It's a lot easier to hand-over all stabilization functions to the lens' firmware (when available).

Considering that Leica is - allegedly - using the same Panasonic IBIS/OIS system and DFD Autofocus, I think there should be a tighter integration between brands. And maybe that's what is coming with the L2 alliance, who knows.

RE: combined OIS+IBIS, there are a few youtube videos about using the dual stabilization vs single stabilization, but I haven't watched them.  

[bherman01545]

Agreed, another example is how back-button AF/MF is achieved. It’s totally different between how it’s performed with Leica .vs Sigma and LUMIX lenses. 
 

The L Mount Alliance is evolving. Most lenses work fine, but there are things which still need to be ironed out.

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Hallo,

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[Jeffry Abt]

I would be interested in a Leica Summilux-L 105mm f/1.4 lens. And at times it would be very handy with the 1.4x teleconverter.

BTW I've been very satisfied with the  Vario-Elmarit-SL 24–70 f/2.8 ASPH.  Rebranding or not.

[opera207]

Buy Sigma, save a lot😁