New Leica M6 Film Camera

[jsrockit]

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13 minutes ago, atournas said:

If nothing else, Leica should be admired for the apparent financial risk it takes with the new M6. After all, it has two film Leica bodies still in production!

Well, it isn't like they are building tons of them to sit on shelves for years.  They aren't exactly in stock everywhere.  

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[JohnFM]

^  Long live Kodachrome indeed!  Is it alive?

As an old dude, I'm not exactly tuned into the motivations of the young, but I get the sense that the appeal of film has to do with the fact that it's not digital and doesn't require even more time at a screen.  The film imperfections you note are real, but akin to the pops and clicks of an analog record -- yet they too remain popular.  The mechanical aspects of film and records are things we humans can all understand at some level and their tactile qualities may (for some) make up for the loss of all that digital provides.

I never would have thought that film would have a resurgence, or LPs for that matter.  But both apparently have, against all odds.  I guess I'll have to thank the youth in general and Leica specifically.

[Huss]

5 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Huss,

Both cameras are fine. 1 easily fixed complexity with the Sun in 57 years is OK with me. When I am in the surf & for underwater, etc. I find a Nikonos just fine also. Less to worry about. Especially underwater. In the mud it is also easier. Just run some clean water over it. Or rinse it in a bucket of clean water before you open it.

Best Regards,

Michael

Ahh another Nikonos advocate!  I have two (orange and green) and they are superb above water cameras.  The 35mm lens is excellent, the huge OVF is excellent for street work.  The solid metal body absorbs the sound of the shutter.  And near to indestructible.

[jsrockit]

15 minutes ago, JohnFM said:

I never would have thought that film would have a resurgence, or LPs for that matter.  But both apparently have, against all odds.  I guess I'll have to thank the youth in general and Leica specifically.

Well, would you have thought 20-25 year old digital cameras and CDs would have a resurgence?  That is what is starting to happen now.  Nothing is safe from Nostalgia unless it truly sucked the first time. 

[Huss]

21 minutes ago, JohnFM said:

.

I never would have thought that film would have a resurgence, or LPs for that matter.  But both apparently have, against all odds.  I guess I'll have to thank the youth in general and Leica specifically.

Actually you need to thank Lomography.  No-one has done more to support film photography.  They support all film gear - not just what they sell - and encourage all types of photography.  Check out their site, and especially the link in it to their magazine.

www.lomography.com

[Anbaric]

46 minutes ago, atournas said:

What happens when those new film shooters discover that their negs and prints are usually marred by imperfections, never being witnessed in digital images?

They seem to like it. All those things that back in the day were seen as imperfections now seem to be desirable. Nobody talks about 'grainless' prints any more - they want to see the grain! Clinically clean digital images are ubiquitous, so the 'texture' of film images (even when scanned) is interesting and different. Some people exaggerate this with long expired film, novelty emulsions, heavy overexposure or cross-processing. And the idea of using  an older technology without the instant gratification of a phone snap is intriguing.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Anbaric

[JohnFM]

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9 minutes ago, jsrockit said:

Well, would you have thought 20-25 year old digital cameras and CDs would have a resurgence?  That is what is starting to happen now.  Nothing is safe from Nostalgia unless it truly sucked the first time. 

^  'Perfect sound forever'.  Great to see CDs still around -- easy, convenient, and an album or more of music on a physical medium that can sit on a shelf.

Less 'work' than LPs, yet good, clean sound.  Both physical ... like film.

[Huss]

I remember when CDs first came out, and the claim was they were indestructible because the sound was saved under the top coat.  Guess they forgot that scratches on the top coat would deflect the laser!

Still have a massive collection.  Of 80’s and 90s music.

[earleygallery]

16 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Definitely not with a crowd of people who think they know better ganging up on him.

I can't see anyone 'ganging up' on anyone else. If you read Jono's comments he says some is conjecture and 'seems like' and 'sounded to me like' which is all very vague and uncertain. 

It just seems to me that it would be very odd if Leica has totally redesigned an existing product to do the same things and doesn't shout about it (and also replace the old models at the same time). They may well have sourced components from new suppliers and made some little tweaks (like the pressure plate) in the process but surely not a total redesign as has been hinted at.

They may mean that the new M6 is different from the old M6 which of course would be accurate.

Leica have apparently said the viewfinder is a .73 magnification but that's being questioned and shown to be wrong too.

I'm sure we will get a definitive answer at some point as it's just a case of someone being able to open up a new M6 and taking a peek inside.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by earleygallery

[Danner]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Actually you need to thank Lomography.  No-one has done more to support film photography.  They support all film gear - not just what they sell - and encourage all types of photography.  Check out their site, and especially the link in it to their magazine.

www.lomography.com

Ilford.  Thank them first, IMHO.

[LocalHero1953]

Question to those more familiar with M5-M6-M7-MP: have these all had powered meters? Has Leica ever made a camera with an internal selenium cell or similar meter? IIRC the Leicameter MC was a selenium meter. Perhaps the problem of fitting an unilluminated meter to the VF is too tricky. 

Leica has now got two functionally-identical film Ms; a battery-free metered M would have been an interesting alternative. No more leaky battery risks. Simpler body lines.

[Danner]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Leica has now got two functionally-identical film Ms; a battery-free metered M would have been an interesting alternative. No more leaky battery risks. Simpler body lines.

Batteries don't leak anymore.  Heck, the shelf life is 10 years on most button cells these days.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to leak, but that it's a remarkably tiny risk these days.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

I can't see anyone 'ganging up' on anyone else...

I can't know what you see or don't see. I just know what I see.

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

If you read Jono's comments he says some is conjecture and 'seems like' and 'sounded to me like' which is all very vague and uncertain. 

Where you see uncertainty, I see politeness and humility. It's just a kind way of speaking so as not to sound like a know-it-all.

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

It just seems to me...

Get in line with everyone else I guess.

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

I'm sure we will get a definitive answer at some point as it's just a case of someone being able to open up a new M6 and taking a peek inside.

Yes, we'll know in due time, something that's been said repeatedly in the last few days.

Edited October 24, 2022 by hdmesa

[Huss]

39 minutes ago, Danner said:

Ilford.  Thank them first, IMHO.

“Kids” would not have know about Ilford if Lomography didn’t revive film photography.

[Huss]

28 minutes ago, Danner said:

Batteries don't leak anymore.  Heck, the shelf life is 10 years on most button cells these days.  I'm not saying it's impossible for them to leak, but that it's a remarkably tiny risk these days.

As long as you stay away from alkaline batteries!  I have had so many of those leak, some new in package.  And they could be AA, AAA or the button cells.  It sucks because the button cell size that Leica uses are often hard to find in your local supermarket or drug store in the recommended silver oxide or lithium types, but they always have them in alkaline.

I repeat, do not use the alkaline cells!  Do what Leica says and use silver oxide or lithium. 

[earleygallery]

32 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Get in line with everyone else I guess.

Yes, we'll know in due time, something that's been said repeatedly in the last few days.

I used the phrase deliberately as I obviously don't know for certain either. It will be interesting to find out when we do.

[lmans]

9 hours ago, atournas said:

What happens when those new film shooters discover that their negs and prints are usually marred by imperfections, never being witnessed in digital images?

 

Actually I feel that many embrace this...as we here, already do. The retro feel of film is obvious and to new comers, that is what they want, so I don't see this as an issue. 

What I see as an issue is:

Price..... at 5000 euro's or dollars, this is something that even 'us' as old people might second guess at buying. But for a younger person, this is not the average person on the street. I just don't buy Leica's argument that the new M6 is for the younger crowd for they don't have the dollars.  They are more into used Minoltas' or Pentax or Canon...all being beginning camera's in their minds with beginning prices. Just the other day I ran into a young lady who wanted to go retro but i knew couldn't afford the price. She wanted the used Minoltas' etc...

Second issue is time to print. Process / developing your own film is expensive and so is sending it out. Will they do this after the first few rolls? Not sure.... If they develop on their own, will they buy a scanner and take the time to upload to the computer and then work with software? No....I don't see this happening either.

So I can see this current revival being a bit dampened as either of those two things take hold.

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, lmans said:

Actually I feel that many embrace this...as we here, already do. The retro feel of film is obvious and to new comers, that is what they want, so I don't see this as an issue....

Agreed. No need to add fake film filters in post.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jukka]

1 hour ago, lmans said:

So I can see this current revival being a bit dampened as either of those two things take hold.

Well, first of all, “younger crowd” are not as lazy, impatient, and shortsighted as you might stereotypically expect.

Secondly, this revival did not happen overnight from yesterday. I’ve been shooting film for twelve years now, and in my view, the raise in interest has been incremental, no doubt accelerating in recent years. 

So, all of this has already happened, it’s not something you would have to wait and see to take hold.

It’s not like Leica is jumping into the unknown with this reissue either, they have people doing market research. There’s quite a lot of people out there - including Asia - with resources to buy a new M6, whether these are younger people themselves or folk with kids. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by jukka

[madNbad]

1 hour ago, lmans said:

Actually I feel that many embrace this...as we here, already do. The retro feel of film is obvious and to new comers, that is what they want, so I don't see this as an issue. 

What I see as an issue is:

Price..... at 5000 euro's or dollars, this is something that even 'us' as old people might second guess at buying. But for a younger person, this is not the average person on the street. I just don't buy Leica's argument that the new M6 is for the younger crowd for they don't have the dollars.  They are more into used Minoltas' or Pentax or Canon...all being beginning camera's in their minds with beginning prices. Just the other day I ran into a young lady who wanted to go retro but i knew couldn't afford the price. She wanted the used Minoltas' etc...

Second issue is time to print. Process / developing your own film is expensive and so is sending it out. Will they do this after the first few rolls? Not sure.... If they develop on their own, will they buy a scanner and take the time to upload to the computer and then work with software? No....I don't see this happening either.

So I can see this current revival being a bit dampened as either of those two things take hold.

In one of the forums there was the typical long discussion about scanning as opposed to wet printing. The most interesting comment was from a young photographer who stated many in his age group saw darkroom work as a completely different skill set and they were just as happy scanning their film. Someone starting out could easily find a used Plustek scanner, a changing bag and some DF96 Monobath and be independent from lab processing black and white without spending a lot of money. If a group gets together and divides the cost, even better.