Jewl Posted August 1, 2022 Share #1 Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi community, I just got my M11 + 35 Lux back from service, as I was assuming, the focus does not sit right when focusing on infinity wide open. Now, the behvaior is the same as before I handed it in. I just wanted to check whether my expectation is just wrong, what the focus point should be if focusing on infinity with f1.4. For me it feels it should rather sit more behind than it actually does and I haven't recognized on my M10P before (same lens). Focus was on infinity on the tree behind the umbrellas. Foto without zooming in: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! When zooming in to 100%: You can clearly see the focus is on the umbrellas and not the trees. Now, is my expectation right, that with such a wide lens and focal length, this is where the focus should sit or is this just not possible due to the fact it is not a zoom lens? The distance is probably 20-30 meters to the tree... If my expectation is too high its fine but just want to avoid that the focus always tends more to the front than where it actually should be! Have also added these less compressed to dropbox, as the forum does not allow the full size and might not be easily recognizable due to downscaling: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/scpd81vwhri6q53/AADei_e9UE-jCf5k0EkjLe1Ba?dl=0 Thanks for your perspective! Best, Jewl Edited August 1, 2022 by Jewl Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! When zooming in to 100%: You can clearly see the focus is on the umbrellas and not the trees. Now, is my expectation right, that with such a wide lens and focal length, this is where the focus should sit or is this just not possible due to the fact it is not a zoom lens? The distance is probably 20-30 meters to the tree... If my expectation is too high its fine but just want to avoid that the focus always tends more to the front than where it actually should be! Have also added these less compressed to dropbox, as the forum does not allow the full size and might not be easily recognizable due to downscaling: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/scpd81vwhri6q53/AADei_e9UE-jCf5k0EkjLe1Ba?dl=0 Thanks for your perspective! Best, Jewl ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/335096-m11-35mm-summilux-fle-wide-open-f14-infinity-focus-expectation-on-focus-point/?do=findComment&comment=4480628'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 1, 2022 Posted August 1, 2022 Hi Jewl, Take a look here M11 + 35mm Summilux FLE - wide open (f1.4) + infinity focus - Expectation on focus point. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jankap Posted August 1, 2022 Share #2 Posted August 1, 2022 No, you are right. Focus is too close. For me, one cannot trust rangefinding. One should look through the lens to be sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted August 1, 2022 Share #3 Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Jewl said: Hi community, I just got my M11 + 35 Lux back from service, as I was assuming, the focus does not sit right when focusing on infinity wide open. Now, the behvaior is the same as before I handed it in. I just wanted to check whether my expectation is just wrong, what the focus point should be if focusing on infinity with f1.4. For me it feels it should rather sit more behind than it actually does and I haven't recognized on my M10P before (same lens). Focus was on infinity on the tree behind the umbrellas. Foto without zooming in: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! When zooming in to 100%: You can clearly see the focus is on the umbrellas and not the trees. Now, is my expectation right, that with such a wide lens and focal length, this is where the focus should sit or is this just not possible due to the fact it is not a zoom lens? The distance is probably 20-30 meters to the tree... If my expectation is too high its fine but just want to avoid that the focus always tends more to the front than where it actually should be! Have also added these less compressed to dropbox, as the forum does not allow the full size and might not be easily recognizable due to downscaling: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/scpd81vwhri6q53/AADei_e9UE-jCf5k0EkjLe1Ba?dl=0 Thanks for your perspective! Best, Jewl Hi Jewl, I'd suggest you look into the page 4 through page 7 in order to get a better understanding of the infinity proportion comply to different aperture stops. If you want to get a good enough DoF at the distance around 20-30 feet, you should stop down to at least F2.0 further. F1.4 seems not design for such expectation if my understanding is correct. For more details, please download "Leica Summilux-M 35 mm f/1.4 ASPH. - Technical data"and read it through... Edited August 1, 2022 by Erato 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted August 1, 2022 Share #4 Posted August 1, 2022 @Jewl the pic seems to be taken throug a window. Had you tried without window glass ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share #5 Posted August 1, 2022 vor 46 Minuten schrieb Erato: Hi Jewl, I'd suggest you look into the page 4 through page 7 in order to get a better understanding of the infinity proportion imply to different aperture stops. If you want to get a good enough DoF at the distance around 20-30 feet, you should stop down to at least F2.0 further. F1.4 seems not design for such expectation if my understanding is correct. For more details, please download "Leica Summilux-M 35 mm f/1.4 ASPH. - Technical data"and read it through... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thanks for pointing this out. I interpret this as everything after 16m won't be sharp at F1.4? vor 29 Minuten schrieb a.noctilux: @Jewl the pic seems to be taken throug a window. Had you tried without window glass ? Yes, but did a similar exercise outside, same behavior/result! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted August 1, 2022 Share #6 Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jewl said: Thanks for pointing this out. I interpret this as everything after 16m won't be sharp at F1.4? My FLE is not with me at the moment(my friend borrow it from me sometime around 5 months ago). I'd verify it when it return to me. AFAIK, MTF is a lab test and you may need to get a clear shot on the tripod for further estimation on it. Good luck. Edited August 1, 2022 by Erato 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 1, 2022 Share #7 Posted August 1, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Easy job for your gear normally. I suspect some front focusing issue but 20m subject distance is perhaps a bit short to test RF accuracy at infinity. I would shoot the moon, a mountain or a subject matter at 50m at least as rules of thumb advised on the web, like 200 times the focal length, are not made for high res digital cameras. On the crop below i focused at about 20m on the most distant tree but infinity was a bit farther. (M11, 35/1.4 FLE, f/1.4). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/335096-m11-35mm-summilux-fle-wide-open-f14-infinity-focus-expectation-on-focus-point/?do=findComment&comment=4480762'>More sharing options...
Jewl Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share #8 Posted August 1, 2022 Thanks for your answers. I today tested it against a sony also with 35mm but both at 1.8mm manual focus at infinity: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I do think there you can clearly see the difference and how it should work! The lens is way worse and the camera as well! No problem for the Sony... Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I do think there you can clearly see the difference and how it should work! The lens is way worse and the camera as well! No problem for the Sony... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/335096-m11-35mm-summilux-fle-wide-open-f14-infinity-focus-expectation-on-focus-point/?do=findComment&comment=4480978'>More sharing options...
lct Posted August 1, 2022 Share #9 Posted August 1, 2022 Front focusing again at first glance but your pics are too small to be sure sorry. Try to display larger ones and please elaborate on subject distances too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share #10 Posted August 1, 2022 vor 1 Minute schrieb lct: Front focusing again at first glance but your pics are too small to be sure sorry. Try to display larger ones and please elaborate on subject distances too. Please see the way larger picture on Dropbox (sorry but the forum does only allow very small pics :-(): https://www.dropbox.com/s/mgnas8qbpppuodx/Comparison_Sony_Vs_Leica.png?dl=0 If you zoom in, you can see that for the m11, the focus is on the closest roof which is approximately 10-15meters away, the actual focus point on the roofs far away (marked with the arrow) is approx. 100meters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 1, 2022 Share #11 Posted August 1, 2022 OK thanks. Front focusing is obvious. Did you focus the M11 with the RF or the Visoflex? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share #12 Posted August 1, 2022 vor 3 Minuten schrieb lct: OK thanks. Front focusing is obvious. Did you focus the M11 with the RF or the Visoflex? Only RF. But also if the focus was slightly off, it should never be that far to the front, right? (my assumption) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 1, 2022 Share #13 Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) Happens with rangefinders. It is not clear if the problem comes from the RF only (more probable), the lens only (less probable) or both. I would ask Leica is they serviced your gear. Edited August 1, 2022 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted August 1, 2022 Gerade eben schrieb lct: Happens with rangefinders. It is not clear if the problem comes from the RF only (more probable), the lens only (less probable) or both. I would ask Leia is they serviced your gear. It just came back today from Service. Thanks to warranty otherwise they would have charged me 600 EUR! (handed in my lens and the camera). Tested it today with my backup Voigtlaender 35mm 1.4 and have the same behavior. Thus, should be the body! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 1, 2022 Share #15 Posted August 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jewl said: It just came back today from Service. Thanks to warranty otherwise they would have charged me 600 EUR! (handed in my lens and the camera). Tested it today with my backup Voigtlaender 35mm 1.4 and have the same behavior. Thus, should be the body! Yes, that seems likely. Don't worry it is an easy fix normally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted August 1, 2022 Share #16 Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) Sorry for mistypo earlier. Revised & highlighted -- If you want to get a good enough DoF at the distance around 20-30M feet, you should stop down to at least F2.0 further. Edited August 1, 2022 by Erato Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted August 2, 2022 Share #17 Posted August 2, 2022 vor 11 Stunden schrieb lct: Yes, that seems likely. Don't worry it is an easy fix normally. Is there not a way that you can do this yourself? Do you really have to send in? The little focus wheel has to come out of the body a tiny bit further. But one has to know how to do that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share #18 Posted August 2, 2022 vor 14 Minuten schrieb M11 for me: Is there not a way that you can do this yourself? Do you really have to send in? The little focus wheel has to come out of the body a tiny bit further. But one has to know how to do that. Of course you could. But I do not want to accept adjusting such an expensive piece of gear on my own as it seems this was straight from the beginning I got it… if it was a camera for 500 bucks Or would not have any warranty, then I‘d do it on my own at least I would try 😉 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 2, 2022 Share #19 Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, M11 for me said: Is there not a way that you can do this yourself? [...] I would not advise this if the camera is under warranty. Edited August 2, 2022 by lct 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted August 2, 2022 Share #20 Posted August 2, 2022 18 hours ago, Jewl said: Thanks for your answers. I today tested it against a sony also with 35mm but both at 1.8mm manual focus at infinity: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I do think there you can clearly see the difference and how it should work! The lens is way worse and the camera as well! No problem for the Sony... I had it on my M10P as it turns out the sensor needed calibration. the lens was fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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