Is this mean my camera needs a rangefinder alignment calibration ?

[MyLeicaWorld]

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Last night I set my M10 with summicron 35 asph v1 on the tripod and focused on a magazine cover which was standing on the table. I focused with the evf at F2.. and the focus peaking in white was at its brightest and top point and I shot the writing on the magazine cover and the result was very sharp. After shooting from the evf without moving the camera I look inside the optical viewfinder and I saw that the patches were not aligned perfectly.. Then again looking inside the optical viewfinder I focused aligning the patches perfectly  and shot at F2 again but the result was not as sharp as the one I shot from the electronic viewfinder.. so I guess this means my M10 needs a rangefinder alignment service.. am I right? What do you think? ‘Cause if you think like me I will need a travel plan to Wetzlar.. your advices and thoughts very welcomed..

Edited July 21, 2022 by MyLeicaWorld

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[pedaes]

1 hour ago, MyLeicaWorld said:

What do you think?

 I would try a few more tests first, and try a different lens. At that distance and aperture (f2) it is critical the camera doesn't move a millimeter.

[MyLeicaWorld]

12 minutes ago, pedaes said:

 I would try a few more tests first, and try a different lens. At that distance and aperture (f2) it is critical the camera doesn't move a millimeter.

Hi,

I tried the superelmar 21 and summicron 28.. the result is the same..  the photos taken with ovf  are not sharp as the ones taken with evf..

Edited July 21, 2022 by MyLeicaWorld

[Erato]

16 minutes ago, MyLeicaWorld said:

Hi,

I tried the superelmar 21 and summicron 28.. the result is the same..  the photos taken with ovf  are not sharp as the ones taken with evf..

Due to the difference against EVF and OVF, you might need to consult your optometrist and she/he would then clarify that you'd consider a Leica diopter or not?

[lct]

2 hours ago, MyLeicaWorld said:

I focused with the evf at F2.. and the focus peaking in white was at its brightest and top point and I shot the writing on the magazine cover and the result was very sharp. After shooting from the evf without moving the camera I look inside the optical viewfinder and I saw that the patches were not aligned perfectly.. Then again looking inside the optical viewfinder I focused aligning the patches perfectly  and shot at F2 again but the result was not as sharp as the one I shot from the electronic viewfinder.

Normally you should not see any difference so i suspect your RF needs some calibration. However, i would check that the focus point in LV mode (forget focus peaking, rather use focus magnification) and the RF patch in RF mode were exactly at the same place. Check also that the aperture remained exactly the same for each shot. Finally make sure that you did not move the camera, or if you did, that the field of view was exactly the same for each shot.

[M11 for me]

Is there another thing you could test? Focus an object far away with OVF and then all by looking through OVF turn the focus ring slowly towards infinity. The focus fields start to move on top if each other. Does it then happen that the field moves even a little bit further than just covering when you reach infinity on the lens? 

I see this on my M11 but as I shoot mainly landscape at apertures between 5,6 and 11 I never see a problem in practice. But I disliked that when I discovered it. And as a consequence when working very precisely on tripod then the focus position on the lens when set to "sharp" at any distance is slightly different with OVF or EVF. Its not much, just a little bit. But is different.

I wondered if I could adjust by myself before sending to Leica.  

Do I have similar behaviour as @MyLeicaWorld. I have that with all my M lenses. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by M11 for me

[lct]

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39 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

Is there another thing you could test? Focus an object far away with OVF and then all by looking through OVF turn the focus ring slowly towards infinity. The focus fields start to move on top if each other. Does it then happen that the field moves even a little bit further than just covering when you reach infinity on the lens? 

I see this on my M11 but as I shoot mainly landscape at apertures between 5,6 and 11 I never see a problem in practice. But I disliked that when I discovered it. And as a consequence when working very precisely on tripod then the focus position on the lens when set to "sharp" at any distance is slightly different with OVF or EVF. Its not much, just a little bit. But is different.

I wondered if I could adjust by myself before sending to Leica.  

Do I have similar behaviour as @MyLeicaWorld. I have that with all my M lenses. 

Not sure what you mean by lens set to sharp at any distance so please correct me if i'm wrong but the field of view is only approximative in the OVF so there is little point in comparing it to the FoV displayed in the EVF.  The OP's point was focus accuracy with OVF compared to EVF, is it yours too? Or is it that the area of acceptable sharpness is not the same on the DoF markings of the lens compared to what you see in the EVF?

[Mikep996]

The M10 I bought on Ebay a couple of years ago (My first Leica in 15 years since I had sold all my Leica film gear) had the same issue - mounted on a tripod, the OVF/RF focus was not as sharp as the screen focus.  I did the RF adjustment myself - it's quite easy, actually - and corrected the RF error.  If you haven't done it yourself, there are threads/posts on how to do it; a search will find them.  

[jakontil]

Sounds like you need RF adjustment though

[M11 for me]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb lct:

Not sure what you mean by lens set to sharp at any distance so please correct me if i'm wrong but the field of view is only approximative in the OVF so there is little point in comparing it to the FoV displayed in the EVF.  The OP's point was focus accuracy with OVF compared to EVF, is it yours too? Or is it that the area of acceptable sharpness is not the same on the DoF markings of the lens compared to what you see in the EVF?

Thank you @lct. Sorry about my unsufficient language. I knew when I wrote it that it might be difficult to understand. Anyway: I think that my "problem" is the same as with @MyLeicaWorld. With "at any distance" I mean the following: An object that I want to focus with a given lens at a distance of 5m results in a slightly different position of the focus ring on the lens wether I focus with EVF mode or in OVF mode. Same at 7m or 9m (at any distance). And the result reached with OVF is better than the one with the OVF (so they slightly differ). I did my testing on tripod with a given lens then with another one and a third one. Alway the same. All "tests" I did wide open. As wide open is not my normal shooting style I never had a problem so far in practice.

[lct]

3 hours ago, M11 for me said:

An object that I want to focus with a given lens at a distance of 5m results in a slightly different position of the focus ring on the lens wether I focus with EVF mode or in OVF mode.

Then your camera needs probably some RF calibration. You may wish to check what i said above to be sure.

[rramesh]

Are you able to take photos in sharp focus with the rangefinder? If you are, then there is nothing wrong with the calibration. 

The rangefinder and the EVF work differently and there will be +- differences in focus. 

With my Visoflex, there are slight differences with the rangefinder, but it’s always within the zone of focus. 

[M11 for me]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb lct:

Then your camera needs probably some RF calibration

Thank you very much. I will carefully read everything again and then see what to do and how to proceed. 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb rramesh:

The rangefinder and the EVF work differently and there will be +- differences in focus

Thanks as well. With previous "tests" my feeling was that I get different results. I will take some time soon and try with a Summilux lens wide open with OVF. 

I just come home after a few hours in a smaller city. All is sharp but with f/8 and all further away than 20m. For my photography style the problem is a bit special. But I still want to follow it up. I hope after all that @MyLeicaWorld got some hints as well.

[rsh]

I mounted the Summicron Asph Ver 1 on the M10 with tripod and performed the same experiment as Kaan - when you are 69 and retired, you have the time fro such silliness.  I have 20/20 vision with the exception that I need reading glasses so close focusing with the rangefinder is problematic, especially with the 35 Summicron Asph as the focus throw is REALLY tight and why I normally use the Visoflex when close in.  There was a Very Slight difference between the rangefinder and the Visoflex and truth be told, it can most likely be due to my eyesight.  

[M11 for me]

Well, I am a bit older than you and imagine (or hope) you are right. However I want to test more as well and first of all more systematically. Nevertheless the images I took yesterday and that I published on my website are all crisp sharp (all with OVF). But at apertures larger than f/5,6 mostly taken with 50mm Summilux. 

Its a very tricky thing that keeps working in my mind. With the M10 I had no Visoflex yet which was maybe better 😇

[rsh]

Trust me, I am not always right.  At times I say stupid things in my posts and as time passes, I look back and wonder what possessed me.  

Of the lenses I own, the 35 Asph Ver 1 is the most challenging to focus close in w/o the Visoflex.  The 50 Summilux Asph or the 28 & 75  Summicrons are less challenging on my eyesight focusing close.  I cannot definitively answer why.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by rsh

[MyLeicaWorld]

50 minutes ago, rsh said:

Trust me, I am not always right.  At times I say stupid things in my posts and as time passes, I look back and wonder what possessed me.  

Of the lenses I own, the 35 Asph Ver 1 is the most challenging to focus close in w/o the Visoflex.  The 50 Summilux Asph or the 28 & 75  Summicrons are less challenging on my eyesight focusing close.  I cannot definitively answer why.

 

Hi,

we feel the same.. v1 is very hard to focus very tight and plus the focussing tab is very hard to move.. unlike other lenses.. here is a sample photo of v1

 

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Edited July 23, 2022 by MyLeicaWorld

[M11 for me]

I think that this is a wonderful portrait. 

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Hallo,

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[lct]

14 minutes ago, MyLeicaWorld said:

v1 is very hard to focus very tight and plus the focussing tab is very hard to move.. unlike other lenses.. here is a sample photo of v1

My experience with the Summicron 35/2 asph v1 is different to yours i must say. Smooth and accurate focusing with comfortable focus tab. I suspect your body and/or lens may need some CLA.

[MyLeicaWorld]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

My experience with the Summicron 35/2 asph v1 is different to yours i must say. Smooth and accurate focusing with comfortable focus tab. I suspect your body and/or lens may need some CLA.

On August I’ll make a reservation to Wetzlar Factory Service.. they said they adjust the rangefinder and  the lens  on the same day for the visitors coming from abroad..