FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 29, 2022 Share #181 Posted June 29, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 19 hours ago, lct said: You mean on M10's in classic mode? Just asking as i have no experience with those cameras. Yes. That’s the official difference between the M10R and M11 in non-live view, according to Leica. Basically less than an error in my reaction time. Gordon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 Hi FlashGordonPhotography, Take a look here Core of the digital M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 29, 2022 Share #182 Posted June 29, 2022 And for the record, I do prefer the M10R sound, if I’m listening for it, over the M11. But I swap back and forward and occasionally wondering why my M10M hasn’t booted up. I’m waiting for the M11 click….. And I don’t really hear the shutter in a way I remember it. I just use each camera. The M10R sound is nicer. Neither is distracting or noticable for my subjects. Neither is faster or slower for the shooting process. This is also a comparison to the M10P/M/R. The original M10 is much louder than the M11. Having said that I would like Leica to consider implementing an EFCS on the M11 and SL2/SL2S. It would solve all the concerns people have. It wouyld need to be programmed to only have EFCS below 1/250. But that’d work. Gordon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 30, 2022 Share #183 Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: And for the record, I do prefer the M10R sound, if I’m listening for it, over the M11. But I swap back and forward and occasionally wondering why my M10M hasn’t booted up. I’m waiting for the M11 click….. And I don’t really hear the shutter in a way I remember it. I just use each camera. The M10R sound is nicer. Neither is distracting or noticable for my subjects. Neither is faster or slower for the shooting process. This is also a comparison to the M10P/M/R. The original M10 is much louder than the M11. Having said that I would like Leica to consider implementing an EFCS on the M11 and SL2/SL2S. It would solve all the concerns people have. It wouyld need to be programmed to only have EFCS below 1/250. But that’d work. Gordon EFCS should reduce the shutter lag a bit as well, but I would be surprised if Leica implements it just for the sound as shutter shock is not an issue, AFAIK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 30, 2022 Share #184 Posted June 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, SrMi said: EFCS should reduce the shutter lag a bit as well, but I would be surprised if Leica implements it just for the sound as shutter shock is not an issue, AFAIK. There is no shutter shock in an M body because the sensor package is fixed in place. No IBIS. It’s not an issue because there is none. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 30, 2022 Share #185 Posted June 30, 2022 PS: Stop wishing for things you won’t like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 30, 2022 Share #186 Posted June 30, 2022 😃 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted June 30, 2022 Share #187 Posted June 30, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, jdlaing said: There is no shutter shock in an M body because the sensor package is fixed in place. No IBIS. It’s not an issue because there is none. Shutter shock is not related to the presence of IBIS. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted June 30, 2022 Share #188 Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, hdmesa said: I have the identical experience and thoughts with regard to the M11 versus M10-P/R shutter and metering. Classic metering + negative exposure comp is fine for casual photos, but for anything critical on the M10-R, I used the LCD or Visoflex (so I could see the histogram) and endured the ensuing shutter "building collapse" sound and the resulting post-explosion ear-ringing and blackout daze 😆 Bruce Gilden must be prostrate with gratitude for the M11's shutter. He can now get his trademark horrified expressions from his street photography subjects without using a flash. Edited June 30, 2022 by Herr Barnack 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 30, 2022 Share #189 Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, SrMi said: Shutter shock is not related to the presence of IBIS. Edited June 30, 2022 by jdlaing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2022 Share #190 Posted July 1, 2022 22 hours ago, SrMi said: Shutter shock is not related to the presence of IBIS. Could you please explain? As far as I can see, shutter shock induces camera movement (causing motion blur) and IBIS is designed to counteract camera motion. One could argue that the frequency of shutter shock might be too high for an IBIS system, but this is not the case. Panasonic offers an automatic Electronic Shutter system on some models which only kicks in at shutter speeds that are at risk shutter shock with the most used lenses and that is around 1/125 IBIS certainly can cope with that range Er Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 1, 2022 Share #191 Posted July 1, 2022 41 minutes ago, jaapv said: Could you please explain? As far as I can see, shutter shock induces camera movement (causing motion blur) and IBIS is designed to counteract camera motion. One could argue that the frequency of shutter shock might be too high for an IBIS system, but this is not the case. Panasonic offers an automatic Electronic Shutter system on some models which only kicks in at shutter speeds that are at risk shutter shock with the most used lenses and that is around 1/125 IBIS certainly can cope with that range My post was originally directed to the unfounded claim that shutter shock can only occur with cameras that have IBIS. There has been speculations that IBIS could prevent shutter shock, but that has also never been confirmed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2022 Share #192 Posted July 1, 2022 I see. 😀 It would be quite surprising if IBIS were not effective against shutter shock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 1, 2022 Share #193 Posted July 1, 2022 11 minutes ago, jaapv said: I see. 😀 It would be quite surprising if IBIS were not effective against shutter shock I think IBIS is designed to prevent camera shake caused by operator motion. Sony, Nikon, Fuji GFX100 all have IBIS and shutter shock that requires use of EFCS. Do you know a camera where turning on IBIS eliminates IQ degradation caused by shutter shock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2022 Share #194 Posted July 1, 2022 How can a camera know the source of shake? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share #195 Posted July 1, 2022 I suspect that lack of shutter slap will be at the core of the M, but the shake of the user might be something else … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 1, 2022 Share #196 Posted July 1, 2022 6 hours ago, jaapv said: How can a camera know the source of shake? The vibrations from shutter shock are very different from user-induced motion. It’s not that IBIS can differentiate between them, it’s that IBIS is only designed to detect and mitigate one and not the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 1, 2022 Share #197 Posted July 1, 2022 4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: I suspect that lack of shutter slap will be at the core of the M, but the shake of the user might be something else … Shutter actuation and sound may be at the core of what some M users want from an M camera, but IMO the core of the M camera itself is discrete shooting, which a shutterless M camera would be true to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 1, 2022 Share #198 Posted July 1, 2022 9 hours ago, jaapv said: How can a camera know the source of shake? The shutter shock is a different type of movement than the handholding movements (frequency etc). I would assume that IBIS algorithms are tuned for handholding movements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2022 Share #199 Posted July 1, 2022 As I said the shutter shock is analogous to camera movement @ 1/125. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 1, 2022 Share #200 Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, hdmesa said: Shutter actuation and sound may be at the core of what some M users want from an M camera, but IMO the core of the M camera itself is discrete shooting, which a shutterless M camera would be true to. Some people insist that the removable bottom plate is the core of an M, not because it helps, but because it was always there. I like the feel of a mechanical shutter as it “wraps up” an exposure, but I would also not call it the core of an M camera. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now