Leitz Auction n° 40

[jc_braconi]

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Received to day the Leitz Auction Catalog in hard, tissue covered style , cover.
Beautiful edition

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[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, jc_braconi said:

Beautiful edition

Yes, quite special as an auction catalogue!

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[derleicaman]

Ironic that the quote from Oskar is spelled with a 'k' next to the image of the camera engraved with Oscar with a 'c'.

I will be writing an article for Viewfinder about the proper spelling of Barnack's first name. :-)

[pedaes]

Although No.105 is the star of the show, there are some great 'black paint' M2's and MP's. Not sure what to make of the suggestion that the M2 black paint 'Tiranty' outfit was initially purchased by HCB, and whether this will become folklore.

[Anbaric]

3 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Ironic that the quote from Oskar is spelled with a 'k' next to the image of the camera engraved with Oscar with a 'c'.

I will be writing an article for Viewfinder about the proper spelling of Barnack's first name. 🙂

You will probably find enough discussion for an entire book in this thread 🙂

2 hours ago, pedaes said:

Although No.105 is the star of the show, there are some great 'black paint' M2's and MP's. Not sure what to make of the suggestion that the M2 black paint 'Tiranty' outfit was initially purchased by HCB, and whether this will become folklore.

If only someone had helpfully engraved it 'Henry Cartier-Bresson'...

Edited May 27, 2022 by Anbaric

[nitroplait]

3 hours ago, Anbaric said:

If only someone had helpfully engraved it 'Henry Cartier-Bresson'...

If 105 sells for the expected amount, surely we'll see the M2 engraved next time it comes up for sale - what is there to loose?

Edited May 27, 2022 by nitroplait

[stray cat]

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3 hours ago, nitroplait said:

If 105 sells for the expected amount, surely we'll see the M2 engraved next time it comes up for sale - what is there to loose?

My apologies, I gather you are not a native speaker of English, but it happens frequently that folks write "loose" when they should write "lose".

[nitroplait]

14 hours ago, stray cat said:

My apologies, I gather you are not a native speaker of English, but it happens frequently that folks write "loose" when they should write "lose".

Right you are. Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

[Pyrogallol]

As a native English speaker I still can’t remember how may “o” s to write.  Loss, loose, lose, or even loos !

Edited May 28, 2022 by Pyrogallol

[dkCambridgeshire]

23 hours ago, nitroplait said:

Right you are. Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

I'm a native Londoner and have to 'think twice' every time I write "lose' and "loose" ... and often edit to correct. You likely have a better grasp of English than many natives. Every day I witness so many natives' errors e.g.: 'could of' s/b 'could have '; 'they're' s/b 'their'; 'there' s/b 'their' ; 'concourse' s/b 'concours'; 'affect' s/b 'effect'; 'its' s/b 'it's'; 'prospective' s/b 'perspective' (my former learned manager!) ... plus all the apostrophe errors.  

[LocalHero1953]

One of the toughest critics of my English writing (and that of everyone else in the office) was my onetime boss, a Pole (ex-wartime emigré RAF pilot, later a geologist). Later, two successive (very rigorous) proofreaders in the office were German & French.

[jankap]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:33 PM, derleicaman said:

Ironic that the quote from Oskar is spelled with a 'k' next to the image of the camera engraved with Oscar with a 'c'.

I will be writing an article for Viewfinder about the proper spelling of Barnack's first name. 🙂

Try to get several copies. A misprint could be interesting for collectors.

[willeica]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:44 PM, jankap said:

Try to get several copies. A misprint could be interesting for collectors.

Indeed, if only this were the end of it. This is dealt with at length (to death, really) in another thread. Oskar was called 'Oscar' by his family. His gravestone in Wetzlar says 'Oscar Barnack' and his son Conrad referred to him as 'Oscar'. So it is probably an 'either/or' situation. I'd be interested to see what additional material Bill (derleicaman) can dig up on this topic. Item No 6 in the auction is an unpublished book by Conrad Barnack from 1949, where he typed his father's name as "Oscar'.

William 

[M9reno]

I find it curious that the beautiful cover of the beautiful catalogue somehow fails to reproduce how ugly the engraving on the camera is, especially the letter spacing between S and C in OS CAR, and the picturesque size and shape of various letters (O, the two Rs, the two Cs), all far more Basquiat than Barnack.

It reminds me of Michael Douglas and the hamburger scene in "Falling Down", from 4:03 in this clip.

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Edited June 1, 2022 by M9reno

[pedaes]

Well, would you want to replicate the original on your book? 

[M9reno]

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

Well, would you want to replicate the original on your book? 

No!  I’d be too embarrassed! 🤣

What’s even more interesting is the illustrator perfectly reproduced the direction of the screws.

Edited June 1, 2022 by M9reno

[wizard]

Am 27.5.2022 um 21:06 schrieb Anbaric:

If only someone had helpfully engraved it 'Henry Cartier-Bresson'...

If it were the same person as with 105, the resulting engraving would perhaps read 'Henry Kartier-Bre sson' 🙂

 

vor 22 Stunden schrieb willeica:

Item No 6 in the auction is an unpublished book by Conrad Barnack from 1949, where he typed his father's name as "Oscar'.

Well, at least Konrad (or Conrad, as he himself seems to prefer) was consistent. But even if Konrad spelled his father's first name 'Oscar' a million times, it does not change the fact that Mr. Barnack's first is properly spelled 'Oskar', as also correctly acknowledged in the auction catalogue.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb M9reno:

I find it curious that the beautiful cover of the beautiful catalogue somehow fails to reproduce how ugly the engraving on the camera is, ...

You would have to use a Dremel to be able to reproduce that kind of engraving 😁.

[willeica]

2 hours ago, wizard said:

Well, at least Konrad (or Conrad, as he himself seems to prefer) was consistent. But even if Konrad spelled his father's first name 'Oscar' a million times, it does not change the fact that Mr. Barnack's first is properly spelled 'Oskar', as also correctly acknowledged in the auction catalogue.

 

I'll leave aside the bad engraving jokes, but the issue of Oskar/Oscar is a subject that is worthy of more extensive study than I have time for. My view is that any person is entitled to decide what they should be called, but , in my own case, there are so many options for my name in different languages, that I don't mind what people call me. 

Conrad Barnack called himself just that ,so we must assume that is how he wanted his name spelt. He also referred to his father as 'Oscar' on more than one occasion. The gravestone of Oskar Barnack has 'Oscar Barnack ' on it. Was this done by his family, his wife Emma ( who is in the same grave) or by their son Conrad, who seems to have preferred 'c' to 'k' in his father's name? There must surely be some family correspondence, particularly between Emma and Oskar and Conrad which might throw more light on the spelling issue. Bill Rosauer (derleicaman) has manfully volunteered to research and write about this. Until he comes up with his conclusions, I'm happy with either spelling. What is in the auction catalogue is fine as it it uses the normal Oskar, but draws attention to the 'Oscar Barnack' engraving. I did the same in my article. 

William

Edited June 1, 2022 by willeica

[wizard]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb willeica:

My view is that any person is entitled to decide what they should be called, ...

Conrad Barnack called himself just that ,so we must assume that is how he wanted his name spelt. He also referred to his father as 'Oscar' on more than one occasion.

William, in my country your parents give a newborn one (or more) forename(s), and that's how you will be called going forward, more or less at least (abbreviations of names abound, of course). The given forename becomes part of the official birth certificate, and thus serves to identify any person together with his/her surname on a lifetime basis. If someone does not like his/her forename or even surname, or would like to change that name for other reasons, he/she needs to apply for a change of name with the competent authorities. That is, in my country - which happens to be the same country as that of Oskar and Konrad - you can't simply change your name by using an other name instead. There are legal consequences involved here, too, as the name is part of your very own identity. If I were to sign a contract with 'Oscar' when in fact my name was 'Oskar', you could argue that my signature, and thus the contract, was invalid. That is why every notary public in our country checks your passport and makes sure that the name in your passport corresponds to the name used for signing any legally binding document. 

So the question here is not how Konrad liked or wanted to call and spell his and his father's forename, as this has no legal influence whatsoever. Rather, the question is how those names are spelled in the respective official documents. This question may easily be answered by taking a closer look at the official birth register, and I already told you that I'd be prepared to bet a substantial amount of money on the fact that 'Oskar' is what is officially indicated as Mr. Barnack's first name. And I am sure that Oskar Barnack did not have his forename's spelling officially changed to 'Oscar'. I am not so sure about Konrad, so I would not be willing to bet on this one.

In summary, it's not a question of how someone wants to be called or calls himself/herself. Rather, it is a question of what the respective official documents say. 

Andy

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[willeica]

29 minutes ago, wizard said:

William, in my country your parents give a newborn one (or more) forename(s), and that's how you will be called going forward, more or less at least (abbreviations of names abound, of course). The given forename becomes part of the official birth certificate, and thus serves to identify any person together with his/her surname on a lifetime basis. If someone does not like his/her forename or even surname, or would like to change that name for other reasons, he/she needs to apply for a change of name with the competent authorities. That is, in my country - which happens to be the same country as that of Oskar and Konrad - you can't simply change your name by using an other name instead. There are legal consequences involved here, too, as the name is part of your very own identity. If I were to sign a contract with 'Oscar' when in fact my name was 'Oskar', you could argue that my signature, and thus the contract, was invalid. That is why every notary public in our country checks your passport and makes sure that the name in your passport corresponds to the name used for signing any legally binding document. 

So the question here is not how Konrad liked or wanted to call and spell his and his father's forename, as this has no legal influence whatsoever. Rather, the question is how those names are spelled in the respective official documents. This question may easily be answered by taking a closer look at the official birth register, and I already told you that I'd be prepared to bet a substantial amount of money on the fact that 'Oskar' is what is officially indicated as Mr. Barnack's first name. And I am sure that Oskar Barnack did not have his forename's spelling officially changed to 'Oscar'. I am not so sure about Konrad, so I would not be willing to bet on this one.

In summary, it's not a question of how someone wants to be called or calls himself/herself. Rather, it is a question of what the respective official documents say. 

Andy

Thanks Andy or should it be Andrew or Andreas or something else? So, every time somebody calls me Willy, Willie, Willi, Will, Bill, Billy, Billie, Liam, Wilhelm, Guillaume, Guillermo or whatever, should I not respond? I always sign official and business documents as William, although there are some official documents from my schooldays, in the official first language of my country, where I am described as Liam Ó Fágáin, which is the correct Irish translation of my name. Are engravings on cameras or letters written by a son in the same categories as signatures on official or business documents?

I could bore you to death telling you which of the names on the first list I am called by family or friends, both inside and outside of Ireland. I can only tell you that I respond to all of them and call myself a fair number from that list. 

If only life was all about legal documents, then things might be a lot more simple. I might add that many people legally change their given names, but there is no evidence that Barnack did this. When you look into the arts and entertainment, then we are calling a lot of people the 'wrong name' a lot of the time.

I will await the outcome of Mr Rosauer's research about the Barnacks and their names.

William