mikelevitt Posted August 2, 2022 Share #41 Posted August 2, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 6/7/2022 at 10:40 AM, elmars said: In the betatest phase especially one professional critisized the implementation of the internal storage very hard and verdicted it useless. Most of us shared his opinion but not his final verdict. From a professional standpoint, the purpose of having 2 cards or a card and internal storage is to have a copy in case the card fails. If Leica would implement the camera as a mass storage device that could be mounted on a computer (rumored for a future update) the internal storage would fulfill that purpose. As of now, I would consider it better than nothing. If the card fails, I can theoretically get to the images in the Leica app, which is better than losing them completely. As to my experience with the camera, it is the best digital M ever. Great EVF if you need it. Hybrid shutter so you can use fast lenses without ND Great battery life and easy to change. Easy access to the card. USB port for charging. Huge file size and great quality. I am very happy with mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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mikelevitt Posted August 2, 2022 Share #42 Posted August 2, 2022 On 6/7/2022 at 1:52 PM, SrMi said: The deletion could lead to fragmentation (exFAT?), but that is doubtful to have any performance impact. On the other hand, you can often recover files you accidentally deleted. I wish all cameras had the option to delete all files instead of doing only a single image delete. They do. FORMAT the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelevitt Posted August 2, 2022 Share #43 Posted August 2, 2022 On 6/7/2022 at 1:03 PM, elmars said: 1. From the M8 on I deleted files on SD cards and nearly never formatted the card after deleting all images. Never had problems. I think this is one of the myths of early SD days that this should be avoided. If it would be true You shouldn´t delete data on Your SSD in the computer. Not a myth. It makes a complete mess of the directory. https://progradedigital.com/deleting-photo-files-memory-cards/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted August 2, 2022 Share #44 Posted August 2, 2022 On 6/8/2022 at 3:03 AM, elmars said: I think this is one of the myths of early SD days that this should be avoided. its not a myth..but hey, whatever works for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 2, 2022 Share #45 Posted August 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, mikelevitt said: They do. FORMAT the card. Fragmentation is not a performance issue with SD cards (or SSDs) as there is no latency in moving a read/write head. That is why SSDs never need defragmenting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 2, 2022 Share #46 Posted August 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, mikelevitt said: Not a myth. It makes a complete mess of the directory. https://progradedigital.com/deleting-photo-files-memory-cards/ The "mess of the directory" has no performance or reliability impact, AFAIK. There is also a difference between occasionally deleting a single image (I do not recommend it) and deleting only all files (it seems to work fine). However, the latter should not have a negative impact on the FAT structure, should it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 2, 2022 Share #47 Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 50 minutes ago, mikelevitt said: And deleting from the card can cause card/directory errors when ingesting. I have never understood the point of deleting from the camera. Fury. When I have taken a shot of a wonderful, never-to-be-repeated moment, and missed focus, or forgotten a vital setting. I have been known to delete it immediately to avoid seeing the reminder of my incompetence. Edited August 2, 2022 by LocalHero1953 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted August 2, 2022 Share #48 Posted August 2, 2022 44 minutes ago, mikelevitt said: From a professional standpoint, the purpose of having 2 cards or a card and internal storage is to have a copy in case the card fails. If Leica would implement the camera as a mass storage device that could be mounted on a computer (rumored for a future update) the internal storage would fulfill that purpose. As of now, I would consider it better than nothing. If the card fails, I can theoretically get to the images in the Leica app, which is better than losing them completely. As to my experience with the camera, it is the best digital M ever. Great EVF if you need it. Hybrid shutter so you can use fast lenses without ND Great battery life and easy to change. Easy access to the card. USB port for charging. Huge file size and great quality. I am very happy with mine. If the card fails, put in another card and copy everything from internal to the new SD. Easy to do from the menu in-camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted August 2, 2022 Share #49 Posted August 2, 2022 vor 45 Minuten schrieb mikelevitt: As of now, I would consider it better than nothing. If the card fails, I can theoretically get to the images in the Leica app, which is better than losing them completely. Absolutely right. But it could be better with little effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted August 3, 2022 Share #50 Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, mikelevitt said: From a professional standpoint, the purpose of having 2 cards or a card and internal storage is to have a copy in case the card fails. If Leica would implement the camera as a mass storage device that could be mounted on a computer (rumored for a future update) the internal storage would fulfill that purpose. The M11 shows up as a device on Windows. I can connect via USBC or USBA with no issues other than using a decent cable. From there you can just open it up like it's a card in a reader. I hadn't even loaded a card in the camera because it was so easy, until.... No matter what I can do I can't get it to show up on my new MacBook Pro. I've tried the modes in the camera. A dozen certified cables. Direct to computer USBC and via several docks (that all work on my Windows machines). In general the MacBook is FAR more fussy about devices and cables than my Surface Laptop Studio or any Windows device. I took a 5 year break from Mac but it seems nothing has changed here. And having to eject disks in 2022 is archaic. If it doesn't like a disk or a cable all of a sudden you need to run a repair... Give me a break. Had more connection frustration in 4 weeks than the last 4 years with Windows. I really really like the machine but simple stuff like this is infuriating. Windows disk management is vastly superior to Mac and the M11 works easily and flawlessly on Windows machines with the internal memory. It appears to me it's a Mac problem (again) not a Leica one. Mac just need to read the PTP protocol in the camera, that's already there. Gordon Edited August 3, 2022 by FlashGordonPhotography 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted August 3, 2022 Share #51 Posted August 3, 2022 25 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: The M11 shows up as a device on Windows. I can connect via USBC or USBA with no issues other than using a decent cable. From there you can just open it up like it's a card in a reader. I hadn't even loaded a card in the camera because it was so easy, until.... No matter what I can do I can't get it to show up on my new MacBook Pro. I've tried the modes in the camera. A dozen certified cables. Direct to computer USBC and via several docks (that all work on my Windows machines). In general the MacBook is FAR more fussy about devices and cables than my Surface Laptop Studio or any Windows device. I took a 5 year break from Mac but it seems nothing has changed here. And having to eject disks in 2022 is archaic. If it doesn't like a disk or a cable all of a sudden you need to run a repair... Give me a break. Had more connection frustration in 4 weeks than the last 4 years with Windows. I really really like the machine but simple stuff like this is infuriating. Windows disk management is vastly superior to Mac and the M11 works easily and flawlessly on Windows machines with the internal memory. It appears to me it's a Mac problem (again) not a Leica one. Mac just need to read the PTP protocol in the camera, that's already there. Gordon Yep, i concur, right on point i was about to get the new mac, but for now i settle with ipad pro and a windows laptop due to that particular reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 3, 2022 Share #52 Posted August 3, 2022 28 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: The M11 shows up as a device on Windows. I can connect via USBC or USBA with no issues other than using a decent cable. From there you can just open it up like it's a card in a reader. I hadn't even loaded a card in the camera because it was so easy, until.... No matter what I can do I can't get it to show up on my new MacBook Pro. I've tried the modes in the camera. A dozen certified cables. Direct to computer USBC and via several docks (that all work on my Windows machines). In general the MacBook is FAR more fussy about devices and cables than my Surface Laptop Studio or any Windows device. I took a 5 year break from Mac but it seems nothing has changed here. And having to eject disks in 2022 is archaic. If it doesn't like a disk or a cable all of a sudden you need to run a repair... Give me a break. Had more connection frustration in 4 weeks than the last 4 years with Windows. I really really like the machine but simple stuff like this is infuriating. Windows disk management is vastly superior to Mac and the M11 works easily and flawlessly on Windows machines with the internal memory. It appears to me it's a Mac problem (again) not a Leica one. Mac just need to read the PTP protocol in the camera, that's already there. Gordon You need to install Android File Transfer on Mac. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 3, 2022 Share #53 Posted August 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, jakontil said: Yep, i concur, right on point i was about to get the new mac, but for now i settle with ipad pro and a windows laptop due to that particular reason I have no issues connecting M11 to Mac (see #41). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted August 3, 2022 Share #54 Posted August 3, 2022 21 minutes ago, SrMi said: I have no issues connecting M11 to Mac (see #41). My apology you are right, i need to be clear too, migrating right now just not an option for me since i m on the go, and ipad pro have been my main machine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted August 3, 2022 Share #55 Posted August 3, 2022 17 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: The M11 shows up as a device on Windows. I can connect via USBC or USBA with no issues other than using a decent cable. From there you can just open it up like it's a card in a reader. I hadn't even loaded a card in the camera because it was so easy, until.... No matter what I can do I can't get it to show up on my new MacBook Pro. I've tried the modes in the camera. A dozen certified cables. Direct to computer USBC and via several docks (that all work on my Windows machines). In general the MacBook is FAR more fussy about devices and cables than my Surface Laptop Studio or any Windows device. I took a 5 year break from Mac but it seems nothing has changed here. And having to eject disks in 2022 is archaic. If it doesn't like a disk or a cable all of a sudden you need to run a repair... Give me a break. Had more connection frustration in 4 weeks than the last 4 years with Windows. I really really like the machine but simple stuff like this is infuriating. Windows disk management is vastly superior to Mac and the M11 works easily and flawlessly on Windows machines with the internal memory. It appears to me it's a Mac problem (again) not a Leica one. Mac just need to read the PTP protocol in the camera, that's already there. Gordon At least Apple brought back the SD slot. My guess would be the Apple protocol for getting the M11 to show up as a storage device is published/clear but has not yet been implemented by Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 3, 2022 Share #56 Posted August 3, 2022 37 minutes ago, hdmesa said: At least Apple brought back the SD slot. My guess would be the Apple protocol for getting the M11 to show up as a storage device is published/clear but has not yet been implemented by Leica. +1 for the SD slot :). @elmars mentioned that a big connectivity update would occur in autumn. That update may allow "mass storage" mode for M11, enabling connection to Mac without the help of Android File Transfer. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted August 3, 2022 Share #57 Posted August 3, 2022 21 hours ago, SrMi said: You need to install Android File Transfer on Mac. Thanks. I'll try it. But I will say that whether it's Apple or Leica that need to do something, not being able to easily access the internal storage should have never been a thing and the camera should have been released with this sorted. The fact that (probably) half the M11 user base has to use a hack like this to access files is really lame. The M11 has been out for nearly six months now and Leica made a HUGE deal about Apple connectivity (iPad etc). To leave out something as simple as PC connectivity is below what I expect from Leica. This is the kind of thing I find REALLY disappointing. Had I been all Mac when I picked up my M11 and had this I would probably returned it as not fit for purpose. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted August 3, 2022 Share #58 Posted August 3, 2022 21 hours ago, jakontil said: Yep, i concur, right on point i was about to get the new mac, but for now i settle with ipad pro and a windows laptop due to that particular reason Don't get me wrong. My 14" M1 max MBP is spectacular. I personally (slightly) prefer Windows but there is nothing that comes close to the MBP when you combine power and battery life. This thing is soooooo fast compared even to my i9 Asus machine. And on battery it's not even close. Even the 12th gen Windows machines look like they have either half the speed or half the battery life. My current machine (11th gen) is about the same plugged (photo editing) but unplug and I get half the power and 1/4 the battery life. There are definitely things I miss and/or don't like as much as my other Windows machines but there are workarounds for most of them. Mac life seems to be full of workarounds but at least they are there, usually. The only real downside is the lack of a touchscreen, which I really really miss sometimes, and not being able to do a full custom calibration. The screen is good but not as good as my Asus OLED 4K panel. But as a portable powerful travel photo editor nothing comes close, for now. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted August 3, 2022 Share #59 Posted August 3, 2022 4 hours ago, hdmesa said: At least Apple brought back the SD slot. My guess would be the Apple protocol for getting the M11 to show up as a storage device is published/clear but has not yet been implemented by Leica. Not particularly relevant to me as the little dock I need to have a USBA port has a SD card slot as well as micro SD for my drone's cards. And it does bugger all to help me access the internal memory of the M11. But sure, we should congratulate them for bringing back a thing that they removed from a laptop aimed at creators..... Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted August 4, 2022 Share #60 Posted August 4, 2022 57 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said: Not particularly relevant to me as the little dock I need to have a USBA port has a SD card slot as well as micro SD for my drone's cards. And it does bugger all to help me access the internal memory of the M11. But sure, we should congratulate them for bringing back a thing that they removed from a laptop aimed at creators..... Gordon It was stupid of them to remove it, I agree. I wouldn't have bought my new MBP without it. So maybe I "congratulated" them by buying one I guess. If you hate not having access to the M11 mass storage as much as I hated having to use a dongle to use an SD card, then I feel your pain. It does sound like support for it is coming, just don't read that as me congratulating them for being late about it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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