OMG! The prices!

[Tomsmac]

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2 hours ago, grahamc said:

It's a good point but I think anyone looking for an M6 is going to easily find one for US$2800 - $3000.  I mean you could randomly click one on the world's most expensive auction site and find one for that.  

A new MP is $5695 , or $4500-$5000 used.

If we consider people save for years to afford that $2800 analogue camera, how can it be surprising to any of us that M6 is a popular choice.  

In fact it's a great choice 

Used Leica M4 black chrome or silver chrome is $1800 also.   M-A used $4000-5000
 

Nope. A brand new MP or MA can be found for $4,100 at Red Dot Cameras, a well respected authorized Leica dealer and Leica will honor the warranty. Shipping to the US is $100.

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[grahamc]

38 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

Nope. A brand new MP or MA can be found for $4,100 at Red Dot Cameras, a well respected authorized Leica dealer and Leica will honor the warranty. Shipping to the US is $100.

Actually they can't.  

At Red Dot Cameras there is an M6 in stock at 2300 pounds (USD2800) and brand new M-A's and MP's at 4100 pounds (USD5100).

Whichever currency you look at that in the M6 is 'only' just over half the price of either 

Or are you looking at the ex-VAT prices for the MP /M-A....  3416 pounds (USD4250).    Is there not import duties on the US side to get those items into the states ?

But aside from that domestic purchasers can't buy the ex-VAT price so the fact remains the M6 is significantly cheaper. At half the cost will be better suited to some  (most ?) purchasers 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[Tomsmac]

25 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Actually they can't.  

At Red Dot Cameras there is an M6 in stock at 2300 pounds (USD2800) and brand new M-A's and MP's at 4100 pounds (USD5100).

Whichever currency you look at that in the M6 is 'only' just over half the price of either 

Or are you looking at the ex-VAT prices for the MP /M-A....  3416 pounds (4250).    Is there not import duties on the US side to get those items into the states ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now on their website it shows a new BP Black paint for 3,416 pounds. ($3,800 US) Presumably without VAX. But regardless, the question still stands, why would anybody but a used M6 over a brand new MP for a discount of 25%. And buying in the UK allows us to save on the sales tax. I’m coming to the conclusion that the M6 is, while a good camera, overhyped. And now with the hipster movement even more overhyped. 
 

Buy a brand new MP and get all of the features of a used M6 plus a full two year warranty and a perfect working camera plus a perfect, working meter.

[grahamc]

I get what you are saying but I’m not sure the facts on pricing are correct for most purchasers (let’s say domestic) .  Because I thought what we are talking about is why m6’s are so popular.  
 

lets say I’m buying in the UK and a Uk resident , in fact let’s say I’m a hipster aswell just for fun. 
 

im going to walk into red dot cameras and the M6 is going to cost me 56% of the MP. I’m not interested in the M-A because I’m a hipster and don’t know what I’m doing. 
 

I look at the MP, it’s gorgeous. It’s also way out of my league.  I’ve been saving my pay cheques and walk out extremely happily with the M6. 
 

You only have to look on other camera or lifestyle forums which have a younger demographic to know that people literally save for years to buy these things.  So It’s a pretty logical argument.  
 

in your scenario of exporting to the US at 3416 pounds , the conversion at today’s rate is 4250 USD. I don’t know what import taxes you guys get charged in the US but I’m guessing that saving of VAT at the point of purchase is going to go straight back on at the entrance to USA in the form of import duties  . 

[grahamc]

I forgot to mention I arrived at the store on a fixed gear cycle , have a couple of tattoos made by a mate using a guitar string, and I’ve also saved half of morning my cold brew coffee to develop my first roll in later  

 

I am one happy customer. I’ll leave the MP’s to the dentists thanks. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[Tomsmac]

10 minutes ago, grahamc said:

I forgot to mention I arrived at the store on a fixed gear cycle , have a couple of tattoos made by a mate using a guitar string, and I’ve also saved half of morning my cold brew coffee to develop my first roll in later  

 

I am one happy customer. I’ll leave the MP’s to the dentists thanks. 

So, just for clarity I just spoke to Red Dot. Price is 3,505 pounds. VAT and import duties exempt. Shipping is 90 pounds for a total of 3,506 pounds or $4,355.28 USD.Interrestingly enough VAT is collected on used cameras.  A remarkable price no matter if your looking into a M6 or a new MP with purchasing in the US.  The total cost of shipping a new MP within the US is $6,200 USD. But, soon enough, I’m sure that the hipsters will figure this out as well and kill the availability. 😁

Edited May 18, 2022 by Tomsmac

[grahamc]

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Red Dot (or any retail store) is only interested in quoting you what they are going to charge you, surely.  Which in this case doesn’t include VAT or import duties.   

But I’d be really surprised if this purchase wouldn’t be subject to import duties upon entering the US 

Either way it’s not a very typical purchasing scenario 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[Tomsmac]

8 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Red Dot (or any retail store) is only interested in quoting you what they are going to charge you, surely.  Which in this case doesn’t include VAT or import duties.   

But I’d be really surprised if this purchase wouldn’t be subject to import duties upon entering the US 

Either way it’s not a very typical purchasing scenario 

 

 

Nah. The gentleman told me he ships to the US every day. The quote is solid as all I have to do is send him an email telling him I want it and he’ll give me a call to collect payment information. And you’re right, it’s not a typical scenario. For us it’s purchasing here in the US where the costs associated with buying both a new MP and a used M6 is a great deal more expensive. So, my original point still stands, if I figured this out in 24 hours, why would anyone buy a used M6 over a new MP when this information is easily available and a superior, brand new camera?

[logan2z]

21 minutes ago, grahamc said:

But I’d be really surprised if this purchase wouldn’t be subject to import duties upon entering the US

I've never imported a camera myself, but my little bit of research tells me that cameras are not subject to import duties when importing into the US from Germany.  

[Tomsmac]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

I've never imported a camera myself, but my little bit of research tells me that cameras are not subject to import duties when importing into the US from Germany.  

The RDC sales person told me that there is no duties on a NEW camera however there is for a USED camera. Go figure.

[logan2z]

13 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

The RDC sales person told me that there is no duties on a NEW camera however there is for a USED camera. Go figure.

The information I saw online did not distinguish between new and used.  There's a specific category of imports for 'Roll film camera, 35mm' that did not make that distinction.  In fact, none of the camera categories I saw did. 

The RDC salesperson is probably not an expert in US import laws - of course, neither am I 🙂

Edited May 18, 2022 by logan2z

[pedaes]

11 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

no duties on a NEW camera however there is for a USED camera

Are you sure they said duty, not VAT?  VAT is all they control.

[Tomsmac]

Yes, no charge on both duty and vat. He was clear that he ships to the US everyday.

[Tomsmac]

17 minutes ago, logan2z said:

The information I saw online did not distinguish between new and used.  There's a specific category of imports for 'Roll film camera, 35mm' that did not make that distinction.  In fact, none of the camera categories I saw did. 

The RDC salesperson is probably not an expert in US import laws - of course, neither am I 🙂

I would argue that he is an expert as he ships to the US every day. He was very clear.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Tomsmac

[jakontil]

May be these hipsters dont know nothing bout MP, all they know is just M6 is made by leica, and it’s silver chrome, reminiscing the classic looks but less challenging compared to using anything prior to M6 

[Matlock]

53 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

I would argue that he is an expert as he ships to the US every day. He was very clear.

Ivor knows what he is talking about as he has been running Red Dot Cameras for over 20 years. I have dealt with him all that time (and before that prior to him setting up RDC). Obviously I am in the UK but I know he deals worldwide.

[Tomsmac]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

The information I saw online did not distinguish between new and used.  There's a specific category of imports for 'Roll film camera, 35mm' that did not make that distinction.  In fact, none of the camera categories I saw did. 

The RDC salesperson is probably not an expert in US import laws - of course, neither am I 🙂

 

3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Ivor knows what he is talking about as he has been running Red Dot Cameras for over 20 years. I have dealt with him all that time (and before that prior to him setting up RDC). Obviously I am in the UK but I know he deals worldwide.

Yep. He knew exactly what he was talking about. Pretty astonishing that you can’t even get a MP or MA in the US and he not only has them but at an approx $2k discount to the US.

[grahamc]

That’s great then

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[aesop]

19 hours ago, Tomsmac said:

So, just for clarity I just spoke to Red Dot. Price is 3,505 pounds. VAT and import duties exempt. Shipping is 90 pounds for a total of 3,506 pounds or $4,355.28 USD.Interrestingly enough VAT is collected on used cameras.  A remarkable price no matter if your looking into a M6 or a new MP with purchasing in the US.  The total cost of shipping a new MP within the US is $6,200 USD. But, soon enough, I’m sure that the hipsters will figure this out as well and kill the availability. 😁

 

      ...commendable sleuthing, folks. Per Econs 101, some kind of correction is (in the near future) now not unreasonable. Welcome to 'rip-off' Britain.

 

[pedaes]

18 hours ago, Tomsmac said:

Yes, no charge on both duty and vat. He was clear that he ships to the US everyday.

I agree RDC will ship without any UK VAT or US Duty, but what we don't know is if US Customs charges VAT and/or Duty on import. In the UK if we import a new camera from the US, or even win one in a sweepstake, we will very probably have to pay both at the UK rate.