Jimmy Kang Posted March 24, 2022 Share #1 Posted March 24, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Leica lovers, I have a silver MP (purchased in Korea in September 2022, serial starts with 5613xxx). In November, I came to notice that lower line of 50mm frame vanished when attached 50mm summicron for the first time. I had M3 and was using MP with 35mm lens only till that time. When I look into viewfinder in the very center, it is fine. However, with slight downward movement of eyes, the lower line of 50mm frame vanishes - with upward move it remains clearly. 28mm and 35mm frames are clearly visible with same position of eyes. I took it to local Leica seller (Bando, authorized seller in Korea) to check and repair. They replied that it was not a flaw, saying that they communicated to Leica Headquarter in Germany and got the same reply - it is a normal viewfinder status. I don't know how exactly they communicated to Germany. I really can't accept the response as it really vanishes and giving me a hard time to re-position eyes to get exact frame. IMHO, the internal reflection angle from the light in-take window to viewfinder is failing to brighten the lower frame line for 50mm. MP users, please share your experience with 50mm frame line. And will there be a kind of Q&A channel(English) to communicate to Leica service in Germany? Thank you in advance. ---------------------------------------- Here are some pictures that I took with my smart phone camera. I've tested with 50mm summicron, w/o lens, and even holding up-side down - always the same line vanishes. Note that I put camera facing floor to eliminate any possible light interference. A. With 50mm summicron.Note that upper line remains clear edge to edge compared to lower line. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! B. Without lens. 28mm lines are very clear with all movement C. With 35mm lens. All clear edge to edge. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! B. Without lens. 28mm lines are very clear with all movement C. With 35mm lens. All clear edge to edge. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330993-mp-lower-line-of-50mm-frame-vanishes-with-slight-downward-move-of-eyesview/?do=findComment&comment=4406537'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 Hi Jimmy Kang, Take a look here MP - lower line of 50mm frame vanishes with slight downward move of eyes/view. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
a.noctilux Posted March 24, 2022 Share #2 Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) For your future MP not yet purchased (...) 33 minutes ago, Jimmy Kang said: I have a silver MP (purchased in Korea in September 2022, serial starts with 5613xxx) Contact Leica: info@leica-camera.com Worldwide Service https://leica-camera.com/fr-FR/contact or https://leica-camera.com/ko-KR/contact Edited March 24, 2022 by a.noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted March 24, 2022 26 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: For your future MP not yet purchased (...) Contact Leica: info@leica-camera.com Worldwide Service https://leica-camera.com/fr-FR/contact or https://leica-camera.com/ko-KR/contact Thanks for your kind reply with information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 24, 2022 Share #4 Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) You do need to centre your eye on the viewfinder, it is a necessary skill. And of course the usual problem is to have a finger positioned over the rangefinder window which makes the framelines disappear. Edited March 24, 2022 by 250swb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Miller Posted March 24, 2022 Share #5 Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) I have similar issues if my eye is not centered perfectly in the viewfinder. Eye position also affects how my rangefinder alignment looks as I have slight astigmatism. Edited March 24, 2022 by Anthony Miller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted March 25, 2022 8 hours ago, 250swb said: You do need to centre your eye on the viewfinder, it is a necessary skill. And of course the usual problem is to have a finger positioned over the rangefinder window which makes the framelines disappear. Hi, 250swb I've been using several RF cameras including M3 over 10 years, and I'm familiar with mechanism of range finder (between light in-take window and viewfinder frame lines). As I explained, I tested it with different conditions even w/o lens attached. The strange thing is all other lines remain visible clearly while that particular line (lower frame line of 50mm) vanishes as shown in pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #7 Posted March 25, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 hours ago, Anthony Miller said: I have similar issues if my eye is not centered perfectly in the viewfinder. Eye position also affects how my rangefinder alignment looks as I have slight astigmatism. Hi Anthony, Could you explain 'similar issues' in details? Does a particular line (of MP) vanish while other lines remain visible? As you may find pictures attached above, other lines are clearly visible but only lower line of 50mm frame disappears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted March 25, 2022 Share #8 Posted March 25, 2022 I can do the same with my MP & 50mm cron - the bottom line blanks out (mainly lower right) when I hold the camera markedly downwards (to the floor) & basically aim at my feet You only have to move your eye slightly & you will see the lower line (completely) again This doesn't happen when the camera is facing forward, upwards or downwards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 25, 2022 Share #9 Posted March 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Jimmy Kang said: Hi, 250swb I've been using several RF cameras including M3 over 10 years, and I'm familiar with mechanism of range finder (between light in-take window and viewfinder frame lines). As I explained, I tested it with different conditions even w/o lens attached. The strange thing is all other lines remain visible clearly while that particular line (lower frame line of 50mm) vanishes as shown in pictures. Well I don't know then, but the symptoms you have of a fading 50mm frameline is exactly what happens if you have your eye too high when looking into the viewfinder, although it has to be very high to do this. Conversely with the eye too low the top frameline fades. Do you perhaps wear spectacles and these are keeping your eye away from the viewfinder window and making it initially harder to centre than with your M3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topsy Posted March 25, 2022 Share #10 Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) I've just tried and I can make the bottom 50mm frameline dissapear if I move my eye upwards in the viewfinder but as @250swb says if my eye is centered there's no fading. Until this thread I'd never seen fading framelines. Edited March 25, 2022 by Topsy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted March 25, 2022 Share #11 Posted March 25, 2022 18 hours ago, Jimmy Kang said: I've tested with 50mm summicron, w/o lens, and even holding up-side down - always the same line vanishes. Note that I put camera facing floor to eliminate any possible light interference I notice this underlined words that only when you put "facing floor". This is not the camera is intended to be used. The frame lighting in these film camera is collected by ambiant light. If the collecting lens (inside after the frosted "NNNN" we see at front) is not illuminated as it should be, the lines can vanish. So when facing floor, the illumination of the bottom 50 line can show this . I think that in normal use ( horizontal with good illumination of frames), this would NOT occur. ... A quick test ... Try to put your finger in front of the window (NNNNN), then have a look inside of your MP viewfinder. ... In this image, I see kind of strap, do this hide a bit the frame lines illumination window ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330993-mp-lower-line-of-50mm-frame-vanishes-with-slight-downward-move-of-eyesview/?do=findComment&comment=4406917'>More sharing options...
romualdo Posted March 25, 2022 Share #12 Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, a.noctilux said: I notice this underlined words that only when you put "facing floor". This is not the camera is intended to be used. this is exactly what I was alluding to a few posts earlier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #13 Posted March 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Topsy said: I've just tried and I can make the bottom 50mm frameline dissapear if I move my eye upwards in the viewfinder but as @250swb says if my eye is centered there's no fading. Until this thread I'd never seen fading framelines. Hi Topsy, I think the description of made people confused. To summarize, I'm encountering that issue when taking photos with normal posture (holding camera facing forward or up/downward). Above shots were made with phone camera facing floor (not eyes facing downward) to eliminate any incoming light interference. I don't take photos facing downward unless I want to take my feet 😁 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, romualdo said: this is exactly what I was alluding to a few posts earlier Hi romualdo, I think the description made people confused. To summarize, I'm encountering that issue when taking photos with normal posture (holding camera facing forward or up/downward). Above shots were made with phone camera facing floor (not eyes facing downward) to eliminate any incoming light interference. I don't take photos facing downward unless I want to take my feet 😁 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #15 Posted March 25, 2022 5 hours ago, 250swb said: Well I don't know then, but the symptoms you have of a fading 50mm frameline is exactly what happens if you have your eye too high when looking into the viewfinder, although it has to be very high to do this. Conversely with the eye too low the top frameline fades. Do you perhaps wear spectacles and these are keeping your eye away from the viewfinder window and making it initially harder to centre than with your M3? To add more description of symptom: *I'm wearing glasses and testing also w/o glasses 1. I put my eyes in the center: all 28/35/50 frame lines are fine 2. Then I move my eye upward: all 28/35/50 frame lines are fine 3. If I move my eye downward even very slightly: Lower line of 50mm frame vanishes, while 28/35 lines are all clear. (For 35 and 50 I tested with both w/ and w/o lens) I tested same condition with my M3, no lines vanishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #16 Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, a.noctilux said: I notice this underlined words that only when you put "facing floor". This is not the camera is intended to be used. The frame lighting in these film camera is collected by ambiant light. If the collecting lens (inside after the frosted "NNNN" we see at front) is not illuminated as it should be, the lines can vanish. So when facing floor, the illumination of the bottom 50 line can show this . I think that in normal use ( horizontal with good illumination of frames), this would NOT occur. ... A quick test ... Try to put your finger in front of the window (NNNNN), then have a look inside of your MP viewfinder. ... In this image, I see kind of strap, do this hide a bit the frame lines illumination window ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hi a.noctilux, As you explained, the frame lines get illuminated by lights taken through center window(curtained, NNNNNN). There is sophisticated mechanism to send light to viewfinder with exact angle so that lines get illuminated. If I block that window with my finger, it surely make lines disappear. My issue is w/ or w/o lens, only bottom line of 50mm frame vanishes while other 28/35mm lines stay visible clearly. And that's why I'm posting to check if there is any MP user who is experiencing the same problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #17 Posted March 25, 2022 Just now, Jimmy Kang said: Hi a.noctilux, As you explained, the frame lines get illuminated by lights taken through center window(curtained, NNNNNN). There is sophisticated mechanism to send light to viewfinder with exact angle so that lines get illuminated. If I block that window with my finger, it surely make lines disappear. My issue is w/ or w/o lens, only bottom line of 50mm frame vanishes while other 28/35mm lines stay visible clearly. And that's why I'm posting to check if there is any MP user who is experiencing the same problem. And I'm suspicious of flaw in that illumination mechanism. The angle to illuminate 50mm bottom frame line has been set either misplaced or with too much sensitiveness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted March 25, 2022 Share #18 Posted March 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jimmy Kang said: Hi a.noctilux, As you explained, the frame lines get illuminated by lights taken through center window(curtained, NNNNNN). There is sophisticated mechanism to send light to viewfinder with exact angle so that lines get illuminated. If I block that window with my finger, it surely make lines disappear. My issue is w/ or w/o lens, only bottom line of 50mm frame vanishes while other 28/35mm lines stay visible clearly. And that's why I'm posting to check if there is any MP user who is experiencing the same problem. Now that is clear, not user's fault. Ask Leica, as I think something might be wrong in the illumination path, a lens that has moved or cracked ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Kang Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share #19 Posted March 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: Now that is clear, not user's fault. Ask Leica, as I think something might be wrong in the illumination path, a lens that has moved or cracked ? Both viewfinder and curtained window (NNNNN) do not have visible cracks nor scratches, and there is no damage on body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted March 25, 2022 Share #20 Posted March 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Jimmy Kang said: Both viewfinder and curtained window (NNNNN) do not have visible cracks nor scratches, and there is no damage on body. You can not see what is wrong inside, do you ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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