I SOLD my Leica M11 …… & Why

[boojum]

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What's the problem here?  He bought the camera, used it, didn't like it and sold it.  Sounds pretty rational and adult to me.  Someone please tell me where I am wrong.

[opera207]

17 minutes ago, boojum said:

What's the problem here?  He bought the camera, used it, didn't like it and sold it.  Sounds pretty rational and adult to me.  Someone please tell me where I am wrong.

OP is OK.

In fact, the controversy here is whether M11 is good enough to support its price.
When people have this controversy, it has proved that M11 is not innovative enough.

[boojum]

59 minutes ago, opera207 said:

OP is OK.

In fact, the controversy here is whether M11 is good enough to support its price.
When people have this controversy, it has proved that M11 is not innovative enough.

I thought the OP addressed this clearly.  In his mind the camera does not support the price.  He is not alone in this.

The controversy about Leica prices is tedious.  They are overpriced.  They are like bespoke British shoes that pinch your toes.  "But that's the way they always are."  OK, live with it or not. But is the drama really necessary?  And just how innovative can an M camera be?  It might lose its charms for folks who want a glorified M3.  It's a tightrope.

The chisel does not make the sculptor.

[strohscw]

I don't understand why it is so important to some that we are all equally excited about the M11. The camera is a tool for photography, the goal is the photos and there are great photos out there made with a cheap analog camera. 

[M11 for me]

I used my M10 for almost 5 years (since March 2017). Then I took € 3'600 and got the deal done in January 2022: I have an M11 now and for me this camera is a big step forward. Its much more than just more pixels. I would never go back to M10.

A half a year ago (in fall 2021) I traded in my Canon 5D MkIV that was exactly 5 years old. I got an R5 instead. For that change I paid plus minus the same amount of money. I have an R5 now and for me this camera is a big step forward. Its much more than just more pixels. I would never go back to the 5D MkIV.

What does one expect from evolution?

[WvE]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

I used my M10 for almost 5 years (since March 2017). Then I took € 3'600 and got the deal done in January 2022: I have an M11 now and for me this camera is a big step forward. Its much more than just more pixels. I would never go back to M10.

A half a year ago (in fall 2021) I traded in my Canon 5D MkIV that was exactly 5 years old. I got an R5 instead. For that change I paid plus minus the same amount of money. I have an R5 now and for me this camera is a big step forward. Its much more than just more pixels. I would never go back to the 5D MkIV.

What does one expect from evolution?

Unfortunately it comes with the inevitable evolution in price too. 

[stout_trapdoor9]

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OP did the right thing, I've done it as well. Not entirely sure something suits me, try it out, and then sell it and look at it as the cost of a rental (I did this with a Fujifilm GFX100S - loved everything about it but the size, and although I print large on occasion I don't often go past 17x22). I sold the GFX after about a year and used it to fund an M11.

I would have bought a Leica M10-R happily as it was the sweet spot for me(and I already have an M10M) - except it's still the same price. The cheapest I could find an M10-R was at a certain large NYC camera store for around $7300 for a well-used one - still too much for me, I estimate a reasonable market price for a used one to be between $6k-6.5k, but the demand signal is still loud. Factors which influenced the final decision:

Battery life (I shoot in cold conditions often)
Ability to shoot smaller RAW files
No baseplate (this adds nothing to my user experience and I just find it an annoyance with my M10M after having owned a Leica Q2 and Q2M) particularly when its cold
New processor - I find the M10M spends time thinking about things on occasion - mind you, Jono Slack has mentioned he didn't feel it was much faster
Lower base ISO/electronic viewfinder - yes please - I just purchased a CV Nokton 50/1 and was considering a B+W Vario ND for it.
Higher ISO performance - yes please - I shoot in lowlight all the time, and it was the reason I couldn't keep the Q2.
Programmable function buttons - huge plus - my GFX100S could be customized as you please

Potential negatives:
If the metering is unpredictable as some users have already stated, that would definitely be a minus potentially large enough for me to sell the camera - I get along very nicely with my M10M (my first rangefinder) and how it measures light.
Changing the button layout - will be annoying switching between the M10M and M11 - if I was an SL owner I guess it would make me happy
Internal memory - I am waiting to here the first reports of it becoming corrupt and not functioning properly, or needing to be replaced.  Not saying this will happen, just that I am extremely suspicious.  If it works as advertised, this becomes an obvious plus for either backup or when you forget your card. I personally have operated happily with one slot cameras for years and am not bothered about it.

If I already had an M10 (colour, not my M10M) I would not upgrade. Having said that, my M11 arrives tomorrow.

While I don't like to pay the price increases, I understand them. I believe Leica pays their employees well and they have good benefits and there are significant supply chain issues that they deal with as a smaller company which means they have to pay more for things than larger companies do (my wife is in the business of trade compliance). Since I want companies like Leica to continue to innovate and produce (and be ready to support my product when things go wrong), I will pay the real cost of the product. I have bought either Zeiss or CV lenses as after comparing them to the Leica equivalents I prefer the ones I bought - in some cases I believe the Leica lenses are superior but I don't believe that my current skill level is capable of leveraging that last bleeding edge superiority.

[lct]

5 hours ago, stout_trapdoor9 said:

OP did the right thing, I've done it as well. Not entirely sure something suits me, try it out, and then sell it and look at it as the cost of a rental

Exactly what i intend to do if the M11 doesn't suit me. Not sure where the problem is. Do people fear i resell them the beast for too much?...  I'm not cheap enough for that... i believe...well who knows? .

[stout_trapdoor9]

6 minutes ago, lct said:

Exactly what i intend to do if the M11 doesn't suit me. Not sure where the problem is. Do people fear i resell them the beast for too much?...  I'm not cheap enough for that... i believe...well who knows? .

I'll find out soon enough, my M11 arrives tomorrow, just in time for cherry blossom season here in DC.

[kivis]

IMHO, if you want it and can afford it, then get it. Basic economics.

[IkarusJohn]

5 hours ago, kivis said:

IMHO, if you want it and can afford it, then get it. Basic economics.

Then you find it doesn’t work for you and you sell it.  Basic common sense. 😀

[Fedro]

how about rent it or borrow it and if you like it and can affod it buy it, but if you find it does not work for you, dont buy it in the first place?

if not easy to rent or borrow .... just wait until it is possible?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Fedro

[Tailwagger]

2 hours ago, Fedro said:

how about rent it or borrow it and if you like it and can affod it buy it, but if you find it does not work for you, dont buy it in the first place?

if not easy to rent or borrow .... just wait until it is possible?

Well, for those who are currently on the fence and are prone to quick decisions, I'd consider sitting on the sidelines for a bit longer.   I've never named any of my cameras before, but this time around, given all the difficulties at launch, I've christened it Edwin in honor of an earlier, troubled, far more expensive camera system that eventually went on, once the issues were addressed, to become one of humanity's greatest achievements. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Tailwagger

[anickpick]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Tailwagger:

Well, for those who are currently on the fence and are prone to quick decisions, I'd consider sitting on the sidelines for a bit longer.   I've never named any of my cameras before, but this time around, given all the difficulties at launch, I've christened it Edwin in honor of an earlier, troubled, far more expensive camera system that eventually went on, once the issues were addressed, to become one of humanity's greatest achievements. 

in one week the new firmware should be released

[rramesh]

There will always be new products that come out touting new features, enhancements - 'The best".

Some people buy the latest and best because they can afford it, or they feel a need for the new features, or simply because they want to be the early adaptor.

Leica digital cameras typically last a long time (10-12 years) due to quality workmanship and material, and would still be repairable by Leica, albeit at cost.

I most certainly cannot afford to keep buying the latest and best. I always buy what I need and when I absolutely needed it.

For a long time I stayed with the M9-P. When I really felt a need for better ISO, I looked at the M10. I ended up buying the M10-P. I did not buy it new, as any new product drops 20-25% within a couple of years.

For now the M11 is nice, desirable, but I don't need it 

[Jeff S]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:15 AM, M11 for me said:

What does one expect from evolution?

A new forum name about every five years.

Jeff

[T25UFO]

I don’t understand the discussion about price.  In the UK the M10R black paint is the same price as the M11 (that is if you can get the BP).  If the consensus is that the M11 is not worth the price then should not the same apply for the M10R BP?  Less features, just a different finish.

[snooper]

I’m about to sell my M11 after less than 200 shots. This camera is not for me, cant get a single shot not being blurry bellow 1/125th and I use APOs 35 and 50 only.

This is a big disappointment, There is nothing I like in this camera, and one of the biggest surprise (besides the blurry shots) is in the skin tones. There is something wrong there in the way I see colors, I suppose everyone has its own scale and appreciation. I was on a South America tour lately, used my iPhone and kept the M11 in the bag.

If you are anywhere close by southern France, It’s for sale. I’ll stick with the best M ever: the M10M. Once again just an opinion.

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb snooper:

I’m about to sell my M11 after less than 200 shots. This camera is not for me, cant get a single shot not being blurry bellow 1/125th and I use APOs 35 and 50 only.

If you are anywhere close by southern France, It’s for sale. I’ll stick with the best M ever: the M10M. Once again just an opinion.

Good to read "once again just an opinion". 

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Hallo,

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[Photoworks]

12 minutes ago, snooper said:

I’m about to sell my M11 after less than 200 shots. This camera is not for me, cant get a single shot not being blurry bellow 1/125th and I use APOs 35 and 50 only.

This is a big disappointment, There is nothing I like in this camera, and one of the biggest surprise (besides the blurry shots) is in the skin tones. There is something wrong there in the way I see colors, I suppose everyone has its own scale and appreciation. I was on a South America tour lately, used my iPhone and kept the M11 in the bag.

If you are anywhere close by southern France, It’s for sale. I’ll stick with the best M ever: the M10M. Once again just an opinion.

skin to are easy to expose in B&W. cheers