Small 50mm for an M2

[JoshuaR]

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Hello,

I’m relatively new to Leica M, but have been happily shooting an M2 with a Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5 Color Skopar for a while. I’m now looking for a 50mm to go with it. I mainly take pictures of my family (including a fast-moving toddler) and small size, low weight, and good ergonomics are important to me. I’d like a fast-ish lens for indoor shooting, but don’t feel a need for super-fast apertures (e.g., f/0.95). I have a Q2 for when I want to produce “perfect” images and am happy to have a “character” lens for use with film—mostly color.

Given those criteria, I’ve been trying to make sense of my 50mm options. I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to the Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f/1.5, the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 II, and a Leica Summicron. It seems like they’re all roughly the same price. Is it just a matter of rendering? Or are there any lenses I’m overlooking? The Sonnar is particularly appealing to me because of its small size. I’m grateful for any advice you might have. 

[TomB_tx]

I also like small lenses on Leica M cameras. The first combo I used (in the mid 1960s) was a friend's M2 with a 50 f2.8 Elmar. That sold me on Leica, although I used f2 & f1.4 lenses on SLRs at the time. The M2 was much easier to focus in dim light, but even with Tri-X the f2.8 needed 1/15 to 1/30 - which was limiting.

I bought a new M4 in 1968, and chose a v3 Summicron as my normal 50, and used that through the 20th century. I found f2.0 quite usable for "available light" photography, even though it often meant 1/30 shutter. The v3 Summicron is quite small for a 50.

The CV 50 Skopar is discontinued, but is a good performer and compact, if f2.5 and ltm mount (use with M adapter).I have several film Leicas now, and still use a 2.8 Elmar on my M2.

The 50 & 35 f2.5 Summarits are about my favorite lenses now - reasonable speed, quite tiny, and identical handling, with a nice focus tab.

If you need the speed, I'd place the newer Nokton f1.5 on top of the heap. I have the older versions, with are quite large, but they give excellent results. I use the original (ltm version) on my M5, where the size seems right for the camera.

[OR120]

from one Old Guy to another -- I think any lens looks good on an M5

[didier]

If you aim at shooting a moving toddler, I think a very fast lens ( faster than f2 or even f2.8) would be challenging. A Summicron 50 would fit the billl I think.

I would also consider the Elmar-M 50/2.8. Very small, quick and easy to focus, and excellent IQ particularly for close-ups.

I personally mainly use a Summicron  2/50 for my toddlers, but the Elmar is smaller.

didier 

[junix]

24 minutes ago, didier said:

I would also consider the Elmar-M 50/2.8. Very small, quick and easy to focus, and excellent IQ particularly for close-ups.

I have the current Summilux ASPH (one of the best 50 ever made..) but I still find my self using a lot the littler Elmar-M. It is so small when you collapse it that any M camera looks like a point and shoot. Light, very quick and easy to focus.. amazing with Tri-X, I use it a lot on my M-A.

@JoshuaRothman, if you can live with a 2.8 lens.. check out this thread:

 

[Ccoppola82]

Small? 50 nokton v2. Spring for the nickel version. Versatile, compact, well made, inexpensive. 

[wda]

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50 mm Elmarit f/2.8. Perfect!

[adan]

I would call the race for the Voigtländer f/1.5 Nokton II, given your requirements

It is just a simple, no-nonsense, "make sharp pictures in poor light" lens, in a small size and low cost. The extra half-stop over a Summicron is significant in lower light. And it should pair visually with your Color-Skopar. It focuses to 0.7 meters - a lot of these other lenses only focus to 0.9-1 meter. That may be a factor with a "little face."

The Zeiss Sonnar f/1.5 is a bit of a "character lens." An update of a 1930s Zeiss lens. Somewhat dreamy and soft and "romantic" at f/1.5 (which may be fine for kid pictures) with very smooth bokeh. But it also has focus shift (the crispest plane of focus is different at f/1.5, f/2.0, f/2.8 etc - until DoF hides the shift. A problem using the rangefinder to focus, where you aren't seeing through the lens itself). Lots of folks do like it, but it is a bit out of the mainstream (as Zeiss intended).

The Nokton II is more of a mainstream lens.

There also exist 1950s Nikkors and Canon Serenar f/1.8s in thread-mount (easily adaptable) and pretty small - but with the Nokton available, not really in the running.

Leica's answer to compact 50s, right from the beginning (1925), has been to to make them collapsible. As noted in junix's link above. The 50mm Elmar f/2.8 is even a lens one might have bought with an M2 in the 1960s - as the least expensive possible "beginner's Leica M kit." Same vintage.

The options there are:

50mm Elmar f/3.5 - more common in screw-mount - requires a simple adapter to fit M mount - not fast, of course.

Original 50mm Elmar f/2.8, also made in screw and M mount.

Revived 50mm Elmar-M f/2.8 from 1995-2006 (below). New optical formula.

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And - the collapsible 50mm Summicron f/2.0 - the first lens with the Summicron name ever marketed widely, and first 50mm Summicron, introduced with the M3 in 1954.

Leica did offer a somewhat compact 50mm f/1.5 themselves, from the late 1930s through the 1950s - originally called the Xenon. With better 1950s coatings, it was renamed the Summarit. Made in both M and screw mounts. Personally, I just didn't find it adequate until stopped down to f/4 or so. There is "character" - and then there is just "blurry." But again, some use Leicas for the history, not the pictures. We don't quote prices here, but should be somewhere close to the others you mentioned. Longer than the Nokton or Sonnar.

 

[kivis]

8 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Hello,

Given those criteria, I’ve been trying to make sense of my 50mm options. I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to the Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f/1.5, the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 II, and a Leica Summicron. It seems like they’re all roughly the same price. Is it just a matter of rendering? Or are there any lenses I’m overlooking? The Sonnar is particularly appealing to me because of its small size. I’m grateful for any advice you might have. 

I own all three and IMHO, the  Leica Summicron is truly my favorite. Having said that all three are wonderful 50mm lenses. It is just that the Leica Summicron is just wonderful wonderful. 

[a.noctilux]

Don't forget Summarit-M 2.5/50 my "now" favorite.

 sold Elmar-M 2.8/50 never been used after buying 2.5/50

a very good companion of M2 plus homonym 35mm on another M2, happiness may be there 😇

 

 

[JoshuaR]

Thanks for these replies—all very helpful.

Part of me is drawn towards picking up a Summicron. Mainly just to ‘get it over with’—I imagine that I’ll want to try one eventually, so why not go for it immediately?

So there’s that. But reading all this, and browsing elsewhere on the forum, I’m leaning pretty heavily towards the Voigtlander 50 1.5. Everybody who owns it seems to love it. With that lens alongside the Color-Skopar I should be pretty well-covered. And I suspect that this 50 will end up living on the camera—because I wear glasses, I have a little bit of trouble seeing the 35mm framelines—and so I like the idea of a lens that’s a little faster and smaller.

Maybe I should exchange the Skopar for the 35 f/1.4 Nokton, in which case I could swap hoods and filters….

Thanks for all your help, everyone!

[WvE]

I got a good deal on a Summarit 50 f2.4 for my M2. Similar to the Voigtlander, it's a great compact and light lens, with focus tab.     

[wda]

1 hour ago, WvE said:

I got a good deal on a Summarit 50 f2.4 for my M2. Similar to the Voigtlander, it's a great compact and light lens, with focus tab.     

You will be well-pleased with its performance. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Here is a photo I took about twenty years ago when I was learning photography. I used a collapsible summicron. I think it fits the bill very well for what you describe. It is very compact, has lots of character and it is not super expensive. The biggest downside to this lens is that it is going to be a bit slower in use than a modern lens, as the focus is driven by a tab. That means you can only really grab in one spot, and as you get near infinity, there is a bump for the lock, so it can slow you down every so slightly. Flare is also a consideration given the state the coatings are usually in (and the old coatings themselves), but that flare can also help its character.

If you want a more no nonsense lens, I would get the Nokton. But while I think the Nokton will be a very good and serviceable lens, I am not sure it really oozes character. Same goes for the modern summicrons. You say you are not looking for perfect, but that is more or less what a modern summicron is on film.

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[Ouroboros]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:28 AM, JoshuaRothman said:

.....Given those criteria, I’ve been trying to make sense of my 50mm options. I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to the Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f/1.5, the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 II, and a Leica Summicron. It seems like they’re all roughly the same price. Is it just a matter of rendering? Or are there any lenses I’m overlooking? The Sonnar is particularly appealing to me because of its small size. I’m grateful for any advice you might have. 

You might also want to take a look at the Zeiss ZM 50mm f2 planar. 

[RayD28]

You might consider a Summicron v4.  It has a tab and the same opticals of the current v5.  Here is a good visual comparison.  

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50mm-summicron-comparison-table.htm

You can generally find these in good condition for about +/- $1,400.

[pippy]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:28 AM, JoshuaRothman said:

...I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to the Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f/1.5, the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 II, and a Leica Summicron...

All these lenses (and, indeed, all the lenses mentioned in this thread!) perform superbly well; you would not go 'wrong' with any of them so your decision really will come down to what you look for in a lens in terms of 'character' (Sonnar v's Summicron for example) and ergonomics.

One small caveat where the Sonnar is concerned which may or may not be of significance is that Zeiss employ 1/3 stop aperture detents instead of the more usual 1/2 stop clicks.

In terms of any lenses you might be overlooking there is a left-field (and ridiculously low-cost) choice of the superb TTA 50mm f1.4 ASPH as reviewed here by Mr. Rockwell;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ttartisan/50mm-f14-m.htm

Philip.

[Danner]

A 50mm Summicron, which IMHO is an essential Leica lens for any M-shooter.

[Lord Wilmore]

Elcan 50 F2. A more budget friendly alternative would be the Light lens lab version, which I'm told performs the same as the original Elcan. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I am a collapsible Summicron or Dual Range Summicron fan. I don't use 50mm lenses much, prefer 35mm, but collapsible and dual range 50s are nice. Not contrasty but sharp. They are old lenses so buying them from a dealer is the best option. I got my latest 50 collapsible Summicron from KEH for a decent price, rated "bargain" but other than not having lens caps I can't find anything wrong with it, a 1953 copy.