Leica APS-C -- No more!

[nicci78]

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Optic illusion due to the massive size of RF mount. 1.6x APS-C sensor seems out of place inside the emptyness of the mount. 
 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Boojay]

58 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

God, this looks ugly af!!!

Is it just my impression or the camera is quite bulky for being an APS-C?

Canon are looking to satisfy the needs and desires of 7DII users (out since 2014) and R5/R6 users that want to extend the use of their new RF glass, and adapt EF glass with the use of the very capable adaptors.  I think they have listened to their users, pricing is competitive and a certain size is necessary for their tele's and many would not thank for you a smaller body, there is the R10 for that (still ugly though).   I am very much looking forward to trying the RF 100-400 and extender on an R7 because it's an amazing lens given its price point and compared to anything Leica offer, is a no brainer for anyone into birding or wildlife.  

 

 

 

[lct]

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

That’s just another way of saying what many of us had been suggesting.

Indeed. APS-C is not dead of course. It's just expensive APS-C. Curious how long it may take to understand that. 

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

this is what happens when you put stuff like flip screens and IBIS in an APS-C camera.

Yeah, I'm sure the Sony A7C, which is full frame yet smaller, was made by aliens.

FYI the R7 doesn't have IBIS

Edited May 24, 2022 by Simone_DF

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Boojay said:

Canon are looking to satisfy the needs and desires of 7DII users (out since 2014) and R5/R6 users that want to extend the use of their new RF glass, and adapt EF glass with the use of the very capable adaptors.  I think they have listened to their users, pricing is competitive and a certain size is necessary for their tele's and many would not thank for you a smaller body, there is the R10 for that (still ugly though).   I am very much looking forward to trying the RF 100-400 and extender on an R7 because it's an amazing lens given its price point and compared to anything Leica offer, is a no brainer for anyone into birding or wildlife.  

Yes, I just saw that the R10 is indeed smaller and lighter. It makes sense that they are trying to cater to two different segments with their double offering. The R10 has even a popup flash!

[MJB]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

God, this looks ugly af!!!

Is it just my impression or the camera is quite bulky for being an APS-C?

Well, it's hard to say how big it is exactly without anything else in the image to provide scale, but it's definitely chunky. And it is definitely hideous!

[dkCambridgeshire]

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Canon have sold MILLIONS of 1.6x crop APS-sensored DSLRs ... thus have a vast existing customer base to cater for and satisfy ... and they have the $resources to develop 1.6x crop APS-C mirrorless bodies for them ... But 'little guy' "Leica Camera AG" has not managed to sell vast quantities of e.g. their T/TL/CL cameras /lenses ... so does not have the large user base or past sales to justify further APS-C development .. without risking losing $£€ in the too competitive mirrorless camera market ... including the risk of 'going bust'. 

[MJB]

42 minutes ago, lct said:

Indeed. APS-C is not dead of course. It's just expensive APS-C. Curious how long it may take to understand that. 

For sure. Fuji has obviously banked heavily on the format for years, and shows no signs of slowing down, but their X Series flagship tops out around $2000, and you can get into the system for well under $1000. What did the CL cost new - like $3800 with a kit lens? Like I said, I bought a used (like new) CL body for about $2000, and that felt like a pretty fair price to me. The lenses were pricey, although I definitely got deals on them. But a price conscious shopper would be hard-pressed to pass over Fuji and buy a Leica APS-C camera, IMO.

I may be the exception - I bought both a Fuji X-Pro3 and a CL, fully expecting to return the CL - but I ended up returning the Fuji instead. The X-Pro3 is a fine camera, but it just didn't speak to me like the CL did. The heart wants what the heart wants, I guess, lol. Would've saved a bundle buying Fuji glass instead of TL lenses, though.

[MJB]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Anyway, this is what happens when you put stuff like flip screens and IBIS in an APS-C camera.

I don't know - Panasonic managed to put 5-axis IBIS in the GX9, a M43 camera which is actually smaller than the CL in two dimensions (it is a couple of millimeters thicker and 4 grams heavier), so it's not like it's impossible.  Also a sub-$1000 camera.

Edited May 24, 2022 by MJB

[tom0511]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

Just imagine the R7 with their Speed booster Mount Adapter EF-EOS R 0.71x 

For example EF 50mm f/1.2 L will be equivalent to 57mm f/1.4 while maintaining f/0.9 light gathering

So you can maintain full frame field of view and depth of field. While having one more stop of light gathering

https://www.canon-europe.com/lenses/mount-adapter-ef-eos-r-0-71x/

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Leica should have made their own speed booster for M lenses on CL. And a close focusing adapter for M lenses like voigtlander did for Sony FE mount. 

yes, thats why we buy a dx-sensor camera body: to put a 1kg normal lens on it

[tom0511]

as I can see, Canon already offers two dx-lenses with rf mount

 

[Le Chef]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Oh dear, that light gathering red herring again.,,.

Is this the famous red herring that lives off the coast of New Zealand? 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Le Chef

[jaapv]

It has only been spotted on Internet photography forums, but in large groups it can be locally destructive for sanity. 

[nicci78]

speed booster makes m4/3 still relevant in the video world. So it is very useful. 

Canon is smart enough to make something about the space available inside the EF to RF adapters : speed booster, filter holder and extra command dial. 

R7 will certainly be a success for wildlife : 32.5MP and 1.6x crop means that you'll need a 83MP full frame to match its resolution and reach. 

Which is slightly better than the 80MP equivalent for 20MP m4/3

Only GH6 with 25MP can beat it. 

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, MJB said:

But a price conscious shopper would be hard-pressed to pass over Fuji and buy a Leica APS-C camera, IMO.

But this applies to all cameras, not just APSC. A conscious shopper can buy a Sony A7RIV or a Canon R5 for a fraction of the price of the SL2, and the M11 is in the 8k range

[Foxtwo]

“Price conscious”and “Leica” are mutually exclusive terms.

Looking at macro economic trends, I’m not so sure that Canon’s new APSC platforms make a sense. They’re hitting the market at a difficult juncture. 

Leica may have made a logical decision to scale back the “lower end” of their product line.

[Louis]

5 hours ago, Boojay said:

Canon are looking to satisfy the needs and desires of 7DII users (out since 2014) and R5/R6 users that want to extend the use of their new RF glass, and adapt EF glass with the use of the very capable adaptors.  I think they have listened to their users, pricing is competitive and a certain size is necessary for their tele's and many would not thank for you a smaller body, there is the R10 for that (still ugly though).   I am very much looking forward to trying the RF 100-400 and extender on an R7 because it's an amazing lens given its price point and compared to anything Leica offer, is a no brainer for anyone into birding or wildlife.  

 

 

 

It seems to be a very capable camera, but… so ugly comparing to elegant shape of CL! 😅

[rob_w]

Ha, ha!  I don't care what the camera looks like but what the photos look like.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Boojay]

6 minutes ago, Louis said:

It seems to be a very capable camera, but… so ugly comparing to elegant shape of CL! 😅

Don't think Canon's offerings are likely to interest you Louis😊, but just goes to show there is life in aps-c yet, Canon coming (maybe rushing) to the market with R7/R10 because of announcements soon to come from the competition.

4 minutes ago, rob_w said:

Ha, ha!  I don't care what the camera looks like but what the photos look like.

Totally Robert, and as important is the ability to capture your subject, whatever that might be😊.   

 

 

 

[wlaidlaw]

4 hours ago, MJB said:

I don't know - Panasonic managed to put 5-axis IBIS in the GX9, a M43 camera which is actually smaller than the CL in two dimensions (it is a couple of millimeters thicker and 4 grams heavier), so it's not like it's impossible.  Also a sub-$1000 camera.

The tiny Olympus EP-5 MFT which I use with an SRB Griturn adapter on my Televid 77 for digiscoping, also has 5 axis (and very effective) IBIS. That is/was my only gripe about the CL, that it should either have had IBIS or the lenses OIS. For shaky oldies like me (a lot worse since Covid), it makes a big difference. 

Wilson