Help me understand....Q2M, why?

[Dave in Wales]

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Why buy a Q2M when a Q2 can do the same in camera or PP.

 

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[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Dave in Wales said:

Why buy a Q2M when a Q2 can do the same in camera or PP.

 

It's a hard question to answer Dave because it all comes down to one's personal perspective when you look at and try to compare the images from the Q2M and the Q2, it's subjective for sure. For most "eyes" the difference between the B&W converted images from a Q2 to the those from the Q2M will not matter at all in my opinion BUT having said that I have just traded in my Q for a Q2M and I couldn't be happier. The results are extraordinary to my critical B&W biased eye, much deeper files in tonality, quality, and sharpness, of image. It's an amazing camera, but you have to be a B&W nut to be there. There's one important thing about the Q2M that was really a deal-maker for me and that is the EVF being solely in B&W, that's just wonderful and makes the whole experience of shooting monochrome complete.....after all with even a M10-M, ( which I also own and deeply appreciate as a tool ),  you are viewing the scene you want to photograph in full colour because you are using a OVF, with the Q2M you view in B&W right off the bat and that's massive! 

Try one and see, that's the only way to make up your mind.........

 

PS. Where in Wales? I used to have a home in the Beacons and still remember it fondly, except for the rain.

Edited February 3, 2022 by petermullett

[Dave in Wales]

Thank you Peter, the one thing you mention that I can empathise with is a B&W EVF.

I'm the other side of Wales to the Beacons....out to the west, not far short of Cardigan.

[pop]

1 hour ago, Dave in Wales said:

can do the same in camera or PP

It's not really the same. The plain camera has a color filter array in front of the sensor. Hence, you have to interpolate the value for each b/w pixel by evaluate four or eight surrounding colored pixels, depending on how the processing works. The result will not be as crisp as from using a sensor without any color filters in front.

The rest of the charm might be mere psychology, when you know that you can not fiddle with your shot until the B/W conversion looks right.

[Ba Erv]

This is the reason:

 

[Bazookajoe]

Because not everyone sees/shoots the same as you.

I went a whole year shooting only B&W. No colour at all. B&W in the EVF as well.

I started seeing things more in terms of patterns and shapes, and light and darkness. It really changed the way I looked at photography.

Now, you're probably thinking, 'yeah, but shooting with a Q2 in B&W, you see the B&W in the EVF.'

It's more than that. It's a headspace; a way of seeing and thinking.

Knowing you can't drastically change something later, greatly influences how you take the shot. BIG difference.

To me, that's part of the Leica experience -not being distracted by things that don't interest me.

 

[Anakronox]

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Well for me it’s down to performance and noise.  I’m not happy with Q2 files above ISO 5,000.  However with the Q2M I can easily shoot up to 25,000.  This is a huge deal because I can stop down at night AND have a fast shutter speed.  Most of my shooting happens after dark and the added flexibility of high ISO allows for context in shots, not just bokeh.

Oh and also because I don’t really enjoy color for most of my street photography.  And I Loathe with a capital L, tweaking color sliders in post to make a color-mono conversion.  It’s never completely accurate or consistent across a series.  I don’t have to worry with that aspect when shooting one of my Monochroms.  A color filter on the lens gets me 90% of the way toward a finished photo.  I have to adjust very little in post .

Ultimately it comes down to preference.  If you personally can’t see the value in a mono-only camera, you’re not alone and you’re not wrong either.  But there are dozens of us (dozens!) who do and the benefits to shooting and post production can’t be downplayed.  They may not be benefits to you, but that’s cool!  You may have features you need more (like color?  Pffff 😝)!

Edited February 3, 2022 by Anakronox

[higa]

As a news editor, I take a lot of "journalistic" type shots for work, where I don't have time to worry about a lot of things that make a "nice" picture, as I''m concerned with making sure I get everything in or out, leaving space for editing, getting as many pictures as I can etc... So I got a Q2M as something completely different to focus on when taking pictures for myself. To force myself to look completely differently at something I want to photograph, and flex different muscles and skills while taking the photo.

I know it seems really odd, when the Q2M came out, I thought, who would buy such a thing? But here I am a couple of years later, learning something new about myself and the way I see the world that I may never have learned had I just decided to buy a "regular" camera.

[Dave in Wales]

Some very interesting insights, thank you.

I understand now 🙂

[nicci78]

Monochrom cameras are great. But their usefulness is getting slimmer and slimmer. 
 

For exemple. The difference between M9 and M Monochrom were absolutely huge ! 
The later has very very high acuity. Similar to colour 36MP. At the time it was the sole digital M able to take full advantage of APO-Summicron-M 50mm. 
 

With M typ 240 vs M Monochrom typ 246. The difference is still sizeable mainly in high ISO. 

Fast forward : today difference between M10-R and M10 Monochrom is thin. Only couple of very very high ISO. Do you really need 50000 ISO ? 
High acuity is now a moot point. Colour versions being already 40.5MP (M10-R) 47MP  (Q2/SL2) or 60MP (M11) 

Even über high ISO can be better served by SL2-S albeing in colour. 
 

So today if you enjoy the idea to not being able to choose between colour and B&W. 
And be ready to give up awesome B+W colour channel editing. You can choose a Monochrom camera. 
Otherwise stick to very high MP counts colour cameras and/or very sensitive colour ones. 

[viramati]

The monochrome version has some obvious advantages as have been stated above but personally I wouldn't give up the power of being able to adjust the different colour channels when converting and image to Black and white in either Adobe Lightroom or SiverEfex Pro. Of course you can use colour filters on the lens of the camera but you don't have the flexibility of processing all the channels

[nicci78]

The same. I love playing with colour channels.
 To get the best from Monochrom it is better to use colour filters. I love Orange one for example. But using such filter will “eat” 2 stops of light. Making high ISO advantage less obvious. 

[oldsalt]

Some very interesting, and informative, comments... thanks guys.

cheers

[andre_massena]

 

Since I bought my Q2M, I virtually stopped using my color camera.

The image quality is addictive and it's hard to accept anything less.

But more importantly, for me, it's been a complete personality match.

I've never felt that with any other camera.

I find the removal of choice liberating.

It's a personality and maturity thing.

Earlier in my life, I would never have traded the ability to change lenses and shoot in color.

Now I want the simplicity of using fewer tools, perfectly mastered, and enjoy a small additional constraint to force me to be creative.

No crutch, no excuse. 

I'm also influenced by Peter Karbe's notion of "Momentaufnahme": relying on an extremely high quality camera-lens combo allows to not be distracted by zoom level and composition, so you can instead focus on capturing the precise moment in time that convey the emotional impact. You can digitally zoom and re-compose later.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by andre_massena

[ejg1890]

I received my Q2M a few days ago after years of converting color files. What it all comes down to is a personal preference on how you process your photos and what type of photos you want to create.

1. Monochrome requires a different way to process photos. With the Q2M no color information captured by the sensor and therefore not available in the file. Converting a color the color channels as well as “color mis” are available to modify the look of a photo. That information is not available with a monochrome. Tones are modified by the amount of light captured by the sensor or to some extent in post processing. To modify tones and contrasts photographers use color filters such as red, orange, yellow, green and blue to impact the light and therefore tones captured by the sensor.
2. Monochrome cameras do not have a bayer array over the sensor to capture color. All sensors only capture light. The bay array assigns a color to that pixel. The absence of a bayer array on the sensor does 2 things:
   • Increases the amount of light captured by the sensor. The bayer array decreases the amount of light hitting the sensor by approximately 1.5 stops (probably closer to 1 stop). So monochrome has better low light capability as well as reduced noise in low light.  
   • Higher resolution - with no bayer array or low pass filter on a monochrome camera there are no filters taking away (reducing) the detailed captured on the sensor. Essentially all sensor pixels capture detail without the obstruction from either of these filters.

 

[Leica28]

21 hours ago, andre_massena said:

Well Said

 

Since I bought my Q2M, I virtually stopped using my color camera.

The image quality is addictive and it's hard to accept anything less.

But more importantly, for me, it's been a complete personality match.

I've never felt that with any other camera.

I find the removal of choice liberating.

It's a personality and maturity thing.

Earlier in my life, I would never have traded the ability to change lenses and shoot in color.

Now I want the simplicity of using fewer tools, perfectly mastered, and enjoy a small additional constraint to force me to be creative.

No crutch, no excuse. 

I'm also influenced by Peter Karbe's notion of "Momentaufnahme": relying on an extremely high quality camera-lens combo allows to not be distracted by zoom level and composition, so you can instead focus on capturing the precise moment in time that convey the emotional impact. You can digitally zoom and re-compose later.

 

 

[Alan Friedman]

23 hours ago, andre_massena said:

 

Since I bought my Q2M, I virtually stopped using my color camera.

The image quality is addictive and it's hard to accept anything less.

But more importantly, for me, it's been a complete personality match.

I've never felt that with any other camera...

 

 

Well expressed. I've had much the same experience. Hoping the honeymoon continues for a long time. 

[Alentejo]

Am 9.2.2022 um 23:39 schrieb andre_massena:

 

Since I bought my Q2M, I virtually stopped using my color camera.

The image quality is addictive and it's hard to accept anything less.

But more importantly, for me, it's been a complete personality match.

I've never felt that with any other camera.

I find the removal of choice liberating.

It's a personality and maturity thing.

Earlier in my life, I would never have traded the ability to change lenses and shoot in color.

Now I want the simplicity of using fewer tools, perfectly mastered, and enjoy a small additional constraint to force me to be creative.

No crutch, no excuse. 

I'm also influenced by Peter Karbe's notion of "Momentaufnahme": relying on an extremely high quality camera-lens combo allows to not be distracted by zoom level and composition, so you can instead focus on capturing the precise moment in time that convey the emotional impact. You can digitally zoom and re-compose later.

 

Would You please help me, I cann't find "Peter Karbe Momentaufnahme".

Your discussion is very interesting for me as a brandnew owner of my first Leica Q.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[jaapv]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:34 AM, petermullett said:

s the EVF being solely in B&W,

Fun factoid: Stick an SD card in with images taken with the Q2 and there is a 90% chance (I was not able to try, not owning the cameras) that it will be in colour ...   

[jaapv]

On 2/4/2022 at 9:59 AM, nicci78 said:

The same. I love playing with colour channels.
 To get the best from Monochrom it is better to use colour filters. I love Orange one for example. But using such filter will “eat” 2 stops of light. Making high ISO advantage less obvious. 

However, when simulating colour filters in channels, you will be doing the same thing by "underexposing" one or two colour channels by your sliders, thus introducing a similar disadvantage. In fact, the ISO advantage of the Mono cameras is created by removing the colour filter in front of the sensor. Adding one again in front of the lens will simply bring it back again, but only partly, as only one (or two) channels will be attenuated. As it will leave the resolution advantage by not de-mosaicing intact, the Mono camera will still provide the superior image.