Poll: what do you hate more, EVF-only M or M with video?

[AlanJW]

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Hate is an awfully strong word to use about a camera function.  Certainly there are some "strong preferences" about a lot of different functions and features and people here are not bashful about expressing their opinions.  But I'm not going to buy into hate by voting in this survey.

[tsleica]

Slightly irritated they wont include video in the M.

Dont really care though..

As in..

If Leica doesnt care..

Why should I..

I'll just spend my $$ elsewhere..

And I have..

In its current form..I wouldn't touch a $10K M..with a 10 foot pole..

Esp the M11..so many teething issues..

Every year...I'm moving further and further away from Leica..

Edited January 27, 2022 by tsleica

[setuporg]

42 minutes ago, mujk said:

The poll should have been phrased a little differently: which one do you find more useless on an M?

This!

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, michali said:

The inclusion of video in an M camera never made sense to me.  Anathema, heresy I tell you!

Even though I don't plan on buying an M11, I already have far too many M cameras: M3, M4, M6, M7, MP,  M9 (brick=2nd sensor's corroded), Monochrom1 & M10, I'm pleased to see that video has been left out.

 

Memories of Africa…I had only The M240, Summilux 50, nothing else when this appeared. With any other M I wouldn’t have been able to record it.   My iPhone was buried somewhere in my luggage - no reception, no WiFi, by the time I would have dug it out, the opportunity was long past. Is this not what an M is for? A carry-everywhere travel camera?

 

 

 

[jaapv]

And another quite useful thing, use a simple video feature it as a notebook replacement - record remarks on the photographs.

[jaapv]

Actually this is a very strange poll. Why should anybody hate anything technical or any (useful, if only to some)  feature? If you don't like it, ignore - or buy something else. A bit like a toddler hating Spinach 🙄 

[ianman]

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1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

evf is nice, but in the viewfinder. Would not like to add sth on a camera, and rearscreen I don’t use.

I’d be the opposite. I wouldn’t like not to have an ovf, but would have no prob using a rear screen,  all large format cameras do.

[LeicaR10]

I agree with Jaapv's comment about this poll being strange.  The word "hate" is a really strong word.  Dislike would be a better descrptor to use.  Even still, Leica already knows the answer about video on the M camera.   The M photographers told Leica they did not want video on the camera.  They took it off.  My question, Why do M photographers want to make the M camera something it was never clearly designed to be;  video and EVF?  The M camera is a rangerfinder camera...obviously..so why make it something it is NOT nor should it be IMO.  If photographers want EVF or video or both...as Jappv suggested, go buy something else.  Lots of choices out there.  

In the meantime, I believe instead of whining about what the M11 "isn't", why not either stick to what you own or go buy a M11 and simply enjoy taking photographs that come through your own creative minds, masterpieces photographs that cause people to; Stop, Look, Think and if possible Feel something about that moment in time.  I think you would find far more solace in creating photographs than sitting around wishing and wasting precious time for something the M11 isn't and hopefully never will be.    r/ Mark   

Edited January 27, 2022 by LeicaR10

[jaapv]

That is not quite what happened - they tried to incorporate it in the M10 but failed due to heat issues - and then gave it a marketing spin.  And I still fail to see what the addition of a video feature can harm. If you don't want touse it, fine. Don't use it...

My S5 is a kind of video monster (and pretty good stills camera). I don't even bother to learn all its video stuff - I only use simple recording like I described above and leave the rest to the video guys - who ignore the stills features that I use.🙄

[LeicaR10]

Thanks Jaapv,  IMO the video and EVF does not belong on a M camera.  

[jaapv]

Why?

[jaapv]

Historically Leica is very much entwined with video and movie. The 24x36 format is based on movie film, Barnack originally intended his camera as an exposure meter for his movies, Dr. Paul Wolff traveled with both his movie camera and Barnack, allegedly passing off some stills pulled from his footage as Leica shots, the Leicina had a M inspired mount, Leica builds a beautiful line of Cine lenses, what is there against integration of heritage? 

[tsleica]

Basically..

Some (but not all..) Leica M.. fat wallet aficionados....want the purest Leica M experience possible..

At least..in their own minds..

But are too.. let us say...

Lethargic...lol..

..to just shoot film..and go the whole hog..for the real deal..

Cheatin out.. using a diggy cam..w/a RF or Visoflex..on top.

Masquerading..as a purist cam..

As in..

It's not a purist cam..

It's an intentionally made cripple cam..

And that's unfortunate..

As it severely limits its usage for a lot of people..

Back in the day..pro photogs as well as enthusiasts..

Would have killed to have all these possibilities built in to 1 cam..

Today..nope..

But that said..

If its so important not to have video for most...

Then..Leica should just charge $15+K for that model..just for the "purists".

And $9K for the "crappy" model w/video..

Leica would shear more $$$..and be..well..

Ecstatic..

And everyone else would be..

Hap Hap Happenin...Happy!

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by tsleica

[jaapv]

I rather dislike rookies (say with less than 40 years experience) deciding what the M experience should be like.

[setuporg]

Just to make sure we're all on the same page: this poll came about seeing how some people viscerally dislike video on an M, while others dislike an EVF.  The fact that they don't want to have it even when not going to use it shows strong feelings.  Love trumps hate so we can call it preferences.  But the original sentiment is what drives long threads on EVF vs OVF and videos.

[tom0511]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Memories of Africa…I had only The M240, Summilux 50, nothing else when this appeared. With any other M I wouldn’t have been able to record it.   My iPhone was buried somewhere in my luggage - no reception, no WiFi, by the time I would have dug it out, the opportunity was long past. Is this not what an M is for? A carry-everywhere travel camera?

 

 

 

exactly 100% the reason why I would love to have video option included in every M! I wouldn't use it much, but sometimes there happening things I would like to record in motion. And I also believe M lenses with their smooth focus and character also work great for that.

Not as a photo-movie-camera, but as a photo-camera which also can record an occasional movie. I am also convinced that it is possible to include this without any additional buttons and without making the camera / menus any more complex.

[IkarusJohn]

The perfect travel camera for me is my SL, with 24-90 & 180/2.8 APO R - weather sealed, rugged, and has reasonable video if I want it.

[pop]

I hate the uppercase letter "F" more than the digit "7".

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Of course it comes down to how it's implemented. If you don't know it's there, is it?

I used the video feature on the M exactly once. The day I opened the box and went through the functions of the camera. Never used it again. I was less worried about a bit of code to enable video than I was that the button couldn't be re-assigned. I had a camera with a useless button with a little red dot on it. If video were added to the M11 I would never use it. However if it's integrated like it is on the SL2 with a completely separate menu AND I don't lose any buttons to it, who cares? It's a bit of code.

I doubt that the M10 thermals would allow much in the way of video anyway. And a simple cheap action cam will do a better job, generally.

The EVF is my replacement for the Frankenfinder and optical Visoflex, except better. If I can I prefer the rangefinder. I also have a WATE, a 90 macro and a 135APO. All M lenses. All impossible to use reliably without an accessory viewfinder. The Visoflex is an elegant solution in a small package. And again. If you don't like it you can save yourself some money and not buy it. And then you'll never notice the difference.

If I'm losing buttons or scrolling through menus I don't need them, sure, it'll be a NO!. But if it doesn't get in the way, I couldn't care less.

Gordon

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[jaapv]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I had a camera with a useless button with a little red dot on it.

That is exactly the point. If you don't want to use a feature, it should get out of the way. If you could simply put the camera into video mode in the menu, nobody could reasonably complain.