ianman Posted January 28, 2022 Share #61 Posted January 28, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 36 minutes ago, setuporg said: That's exactly what the last option is for, as usual. Really poor choice of words then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2022 Posted January 28, 2022 Hi ianman, Take a look here Poll: what do you hate more, EVF-only M or M with video?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LUF Admin Posted January 28, 2022 Share #62 Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, setuporg said: There's nothing wrong with liking or disliking something. Definitely not. But starting a conversation by asking what you hate is a bad starter. A really bad starter. And no, I'm not going to open the poll again. Andreas 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted January 28, 2022 Share #63 Posted January 28, 2022 20 hours ago, ianman said: I’d be the opposite. I wouldn’t like not to have an ovf, but would have no prob using a rear screen, all large format cameras do. Fully true, and for work on a tripod I really enjoy it, but then it should be tiltable, like the gfx f.e. however, for out-of-hand shooting, like one uses a rf, I wouldn’t use the screen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 28, 2022 Share #64 Posted January 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said: Fully true, and for work on a tripod I really enjoy it, but then it should be tiltable, like the gfx f.e. however, for out-of-hand shooting, like one uses a rf, I wouldn’t use the screen. Agreed… about the tilt screen too 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #65 Posted January 28, 2022 2 hours ago, ianman said: Really poor choice of words then. The last choice is literally "I'm actually OK with both". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 28, 2022 Share #66 Posted January 28, 2022 So 40% lovers and 60% haters. Hard to be proud about that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 28, 2022 Share #67 Posted January 28, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 14 minutes ago, lct said: So 40% lovers and 60% haters. Hard to be proud about that. Only if the poll were representative, which it is not (many absented from vote, small poll sample, irrelevant poll). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #68 Posted January 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, SrMi said: Only if the poll were representative, which it is not (many absented from vote, small poll sample, irrelevant poll). Same for any thread here. Folks who care about EVF or video discuss it in threads, with some taking extreme positions and others saying they don't care. So it is relevant for those who care, and in terms of what's representative, that's an open question requiring user research (and the poll was an attempt at that). BTW the idea of a poll came about from seeing @FlashGordonPhotography posting about botching his and thus inviting others to try theirs, until @LUF Admin shut it down.:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 28, 2022 Share #69 Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, setuporg said: The last choice is literally "I'm actually OK with both". Lol… exactly… so quite different to “none of the above” … literally 🙄 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #70 Posted January 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, ianman said: Lol… exactly… so quite different to “none of the above” … literally 🙄 Given that "hate" is a rather binary complement to "OK", in Aristotelean logic that is usually equivalent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 28, 2022 Share #71 Posted January 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, setuporg said: "hate" is a rather binary complement to "OK" What makes you think so? Let's assume that on a scale from -10...10 'hate' is -8 and below; lets assume further that 'ok' must be somewhat positive, like between 3 and 6. Then there are the ranges between -8 and 3 as well as 6 to 10 that are covered by neither 'hate' nor 'ok'. Hence, no binary complement. No aristitelean logic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #72 Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pop said: What makes you think so? Let's assume that on a scale from -10...10 'hate' is -8 and below; lets assume further that 'ok' must be somewhat positive, like between 3 and 6. Then there are the ranges between -8 and 3 as well as 6 to 10 that are covered by neither 'hate' nor 'ok'. Hence, no binary complement. No aristitelean logic. In English usage, "I'm OK with something" vs "hate" usually means "I don't hate it." The question is a visceral dislike (aka hate) that some members exhibit towards one or both of the poll subjects. "I'm OK with them" is expected to mean "I don't hate them," which is usually how it is read. We are not asking you whether you like, love, or would die for them; we're only asking whether you strongly dislike them or not, in which case the OK covers all the other outcomes. Edited January 28, 2022 by setuporg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted January 28, 2022 Share #73 Posted January 28, 2022 Option 5: I don’t care as long as setuporg doesn’t spam another M11 topic. 😂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 28, 2022 Share #74 Posted January 28, 2022 16 hours ago, M Journey said: Leica isn't Sony. It can't offer 4-5 variants of a m body to satisfy all the different tastes (special editions aren't variants, just a new shell over the same item and -p versions aren't the same camera with 2-3 features added). Despite being a small company, Leica already offers multiple variants of the same body, albeit not simultaneously. The M10 platform, for instance, yielded a Monochrom version, a screen-less version, and a high resolution color version, in addition to special editions. And the sister SL system, which accepts M lenses, went the other way, and introduced a lower resolution version (SL2-S) that better supports video and high ISO. I’m not arguing for or against future variants; just think it’s pretty remarkable what the company has already achieved in a struggling industry. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted January 28, 2022 Share #75 Posted January 28, 2022 +1 It's just a minor annoyance for me that they never released a M10-R P version in silver chrome.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 28, 2022 Share #76 Posted January 28, 2022 2 hours ago, setuporg said: Given that "hate" is a rather binary complement to "OK", in Aristotelean logic that is usually equivalent. Whichever way you spin it your last option is not “none of the above”. As to your logic… are you a journalist perchance? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksclix Posted January 28, 2022 Share #77 Posted January 28, 2022 I only hate that I don't have an M 🤨 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #78 Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, ianman said: Whichever way you spin it your last option is not “none of the above”. As to your logic… are you a journalist perchance? Most certainly, as the subject of the poll invites only those with one or two string opinions, none of the above means you don't join the poll, designed for comparing the strength of the two sentiments and their cooccurrence. The last option is really unnecessary, and is meant only for those who wandered in without being properly qualified, like yourself. And alas I'm not a journalist... Although I do get to work with some great ones occasionally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebenan Posted January 30, 2022 Share #79 Posted January 30, 2022 I love the Visoflex on my M10Mono for the usage of 21 and 10mm lenses. My new M11 arrived yesterday, unfortunately the new Visoflex 2 wasn’t in the box. Since I do a lot of ultra wide angle work, it enables me to use the M System for my professional work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 31, 2022 Share #80 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Leica already has a full frame EVF camera line. It's called the SL. Leica just needs to make it more compact and many of the complaints here will go away. - IBIS, video, built-in EVF, focus etc. The M is a rangefinder, pure and simple. Introduce an option with a hinged LCD (one that rotates up 90) and many of the complaints around focus, hard to focus images etc. will go away. For those who need critical focus using an EVF, the Visoflex 2 should be sufficient. I don't think we need a Frankenstein camera. Edited January 31, 2022 by rramesh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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