Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

[raizans]

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Ah, good. That’s what I was saying.

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[raizans]

12 hours ago, evikne said:

A possible future EVF M is mentioned in this thread from 2009 (post #7). I don't know if this is the very first time though:

I totally forgot about that article! Leave it to the great Erwin Puts to be ahead of the curve.

[raizans]

I’m behind on the news, but Voigtländer announced a 27mm f/2 pancake for Fujifilm X-mount, and it has a focusing lever!

That would make great combo with the X-E4. The poor man’s EVF-M has arrived.

[SrMi]

12 hours ago, raizans said:

I’m behind on the news, but Voigtländer announced a 27mm f/2 pancake for Fujifilm X-mount, and it has a focusing lever!

That would make great combo with the X-E4. The poor man’s EVF-M has arrived.

The ergonomics of Fuji are far behind Leica. As APS-C format goes, I would much prefer Leica CL as “poor man’s EVF-M.”

[lct]

As far as my CL and X-E2 are concerned, both need an adapter for M lenses. Their size is almost identical, and the Fuji's ergonomics are more classic with a function button similar to the M11's instead of the top dial of the CL. Main differences are Fuji colors, softer corners on WA M lenses, lack of autozoom, lack of 6-bit coding, and less performing EVF on the Fuji which, in turn, has a small built-in flash that can be handy. I have no experience with the X-E4 though. JFI.

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  Edited February 25, 2023 by lct

[Erato]

Leica resolved the aging eyes issue for decades by diopter...

 

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and even nowadays...

Edited February 25, 2023 by Erato

[lct]

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One might as well deprive grandpa of contact lenses since he can wear glasses. Some older people prefer built-in EVFs, as do some younger people BTW.

[Leitz.]

an EVF M mount camera can look like this. I like this style. No faux windows or anything. For me it should be 100% minimalist design. 

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[jaapv]

On 2/19/2023 at 2:37 PM, lct said:

Not sure what compromise you're referring to. The EVF-M is aimed exclusively at M lenses and is supposed to work with the same sensor as that as the M11. Diametral opposite to the jack-of-all-trades camera people wishing an L mount would like.

Actually I would prefer an EVF-M with an optional rangefinder viewfinder in the hot shoe...

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Actually I would prefer an EVF-M with an optional rangefinder viewfinder in the hot shoe...

Leica FOKOS is available used :).

[jaapv]

59 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Leica FOKOS is available used :).

Yes, but it lacks the viewfinder part. Nor is it lens-coupled. Surely in 2023 Leica could produce such a simple device. 

[Robert Blanko]

As technology advances, we will maybe see a way to couple the (then) M13 to smart glasses, so that you could have the best of two worlds: classical rangefinder and the liveview on the display of the smart glasses.

Last year I bought smart glasses like those https://www.epson.co.uk/en_GB/products/smart-glasses/c/smart-glasses to use for flying my drone, so that I could see both the drone with my eyes and the video of the drone in the display of the glasses. Well, there is still room for improvement in bright conditions, but until the M13 will arrive, they could solve the issues... 😀

[sometimesmaybe]

3 hours ago, Robert Blanko said:

we will maybe see a way to couple the (then) M13 to smart glasses, so that you could have the best of two worlds: classical rangefinder and the liveview on the display of the smart glasses

cant wait to see all the cyborg street shooters in their new gear 😏

[SNJ Ops]

I have just bought a used M10 as I wanted an different setup for street photography. I have Sony for my portrait and nature themed images.

I understand that Leica may never make an M mount camera with a built in EVF but of they do that’s the camera I would happily upgrade to. They can leave out IBIS if need be and I don’t want AF. Just an M mount camera with a built in 5.6m or 9m dot EVF.

I also want to state that I don’t believe Leica should or will abandon their rangefinder heritage whatsoever. I’m just proposing like others that they make an “E” body alongside the traditional M.

[otto.f]

44 minutes ago, SNJ Ops said:

Leica may never make

If you see the current outcome of the poll, which has grown in favor of the EVF idea, it’s not so sure that it won’t come with a little squeezing into the M size.

[rtai]

On 2/18/2023 at 5:43 PM, IkarusJohn said:

So, what's the best camera for M lenses?

Let's see:

• sensor with micro lenses to cope with the low incidence angle off centre
• a cam to read focus adjustment off the lens helicoid
• M mount
• M body

Switching out the OVF for an EVF requires no other changes, to my mind.  That's the point.  The cam could be dispensed with, but then there would be no option of auto-magnification, which I find very useful.  If you take an M10, with the EVF, and change nothing but putting the EVF inside the body, then you have the concept.

Don't change anything else!

The size and shape of current digital M bodies aside from nostalgia are to accommodate the rangefinder system. So if that’s gone then an EVF M can look like anything opening up new possibilities. I would be interested. IBIS in the future?

Edited April 4, 2023 by rtai

[pgh]

I don't like looking at a TV, but my primary reason for the M system is that it's generally the smallest/ergonically most sound way to shoot full frame 50mm - which is the backbone of the great majority of my work. 

If the Q came in a 50mm version I'd consider it. I shot an RX1RII for awhile, tried to make it work, but still generally too wide, and the viewfinder did sorta suck - but the leaf shutter and IQ were great. I've held the FP from Sigma - the L lenses and the lack of viewfinder...can't do it. But it's a great idea. 

I find the rangefinder easier on the eyes and even in focusing generally, so an EVF would have to markedly improve on that as I am missing looking at real life which I prefer. 

Most importantly, since the M10 series I don't find anything else to want or need, regardless of whatever new tech is out there. 

[otto.f]

13 hours ago, rtai said:

The size and shape of current digital M bodies aside from nostalgia are to accommodate the rangefinder system. So if that’s gone then an EVF M can look like anything opening up new possibilities. I would be interested. IBIS in the future?

They would never introduce that as an M

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[Derbyshire Man]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:45 PM, jaapv said:

Good point. Focusing on an EVF is not as easy as a rangefinder. Aging eyes can normally be optimized and if not cannot use an EVF either   

Sorry to resuscitate this thread (maybe I'm not!) but my personal perspective (who cares? no-one;-) is that I much prefer the form factor of rangefinder style cameras. SLR's are just too bulky. This bulk can be accepted for sports etc but for landscape, environmental portraiture etc it's a PITA.

I shoot predominantly in B&W. The Q2M is excellent but of course has a fixed lens.

I've been shooting and developing photos since the age of 8 and I'm now in my 50's. I still find it very helpful to confirm what I'm going to get in the viewfinder, although I can imagine the shot in B&W from a full colour viewfinder like SLR/rangefinder it's definitely sub optimal. With SLR's in the past I've used a coloured filter such as orange or red and that delivers a 99% monochrome image anyway. Of course that isn't feasible in a rangefinder without sticky tape and gel!

I also like my fuji Xpro3 but there's no doubt that the files out of the full frame Leica are much better. I never bother to put the Xpro3 into pseudo rangefinder mode. The advantage of seeing the full frame never outweighs the advantage of seeing the scene in B&W.

While I would be happy enough with a range finder for general photography, for my personal and admittedly niche purpose if I had to chose I'd prefer a top of the range modern EVF with focus peaking. Not saying that there is no need for rangefinders, it's superb that they still exist and if I was a billionaire I'd have both but for me an EVF M style camera would be excellent.

My dad was an electronic engineer (who worked at EMI producing the EMI 2001) he then became a studio and news cameraman, they gave up using optical rather than electronic systems about a billion years ago as the advantage of WYSIWYG is huge.

[AlanJW]

The advantage of a ORF is seeing beyond the frame, but that works well only with 50mm and 35mm lenses.  For longer lenses, the frame is too small and for wider than 35mm you can't see outside the frame.  WYSIWYG not only allows use of wider and longer but also would allow Leica to design zoom lenses for the M mount.  And of course seeing the exposure in real time is a huge advantage of EVF.  I doo not see it substituting for the optical system but it would be a dynamite complement in the M system (even if it is called something other than "M" because it is not a "Messucher").