Profiles not working properly

[mboerma]

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Dear fellow forum members,

Can someone confirm if this is just my M11 or a general bug in the firmware?

I created two profiles. One "Base" profile with Large-DNG and a "Medium DNG" profile with the DNG file set to Medium. When switching between them the Status screen does not update the setting for the DNG Size. When opening the full menu I see that the correct value is selected. 

I noticed that other values, like lens detection, are also not updated in the Status Screen. 

Another quirky behaviour is that when changing a profile using the Main menu the camera shows a screen: "Please Restart the Camera". Using the Status screen to change from one User Profile to another, it doesn't ask me to restart the camera.

Thanks!!

[digitalfx]

seems to be some bugs...I can report similar behaviors.

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[mboerma]

9 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

seems to be some bugs...I can report similar behaviors.

Ok. Thanks for checking. I’m not going to use the profiles for now. Too frustrating. Also the lens detection setting is a bit wonky. The detection itself is okay, but it is remembering old manually set lenses (R-lenses with a Leica adapter in my case) when changing profiles even though the detection is set to Auto when I check the main menu. Switching from Auto to Manual and back helps correct this.

Keeping things simple and direct is the only option for now until Leica gets this fixed. 

[cldp]

4 hours ago, mboerma said:

Ok. Thanks for checking. I’m not going to use the profiles for now. Too frustrating. Also the lens detection setting is a bit wonky. The detection itself is okay, but it is remembering old manually set lenses (R-lenses with a Leica adapter in my case) when changing profiles even though the detection is set to Auto when I check the main menu. Switching from Auto to Manual and back helps correct this.

Keeping things simple and direct is the only option for now until Leica gets this fixed. 

For me, the problem with not using profiles is that when I turn the camera off, it restarts with the Leica Standard Profile. That might have been useful during production testing, but the user will want their camera setup to be retained when the camera is shut off. Every other M worked that way. I was quite surprised that the M11 kept forcing the Leica profile on me.

My work around was to set up my own User Profiles and that's how I discovered the DNG size selection flaw. I would change profiles from a Large DNG to a Medium DNG and save those to Profiles. After testing by shooting some shots with each profile, I have no confidence that the selections are being changed at all, even when they are claimed to be engaged when checking the standard Menu items. 

Has anyone shown that this doesn't exist in every M11? The Leica Store-LA was able to reproduce this behavior on a demo.

[mon10a]

2 hours ago, cldp said:

For me, the problem with not using profiles is that when I turn the camera off, it restarts with the Leica Standard Profile. That might have been useful during production testing, but the user will want their camera setup to be retained when the camera is shut off. Every other M worked that way. I was quite surprised that the M11 kept forcing the Leica profile on me.

My work around was to set up my own User Profiles and that's how I discovered the DNG size selection flaw. I would change profiles from a Large DNG to a Medium DNG and save those to Profiles. After testing by shooting some shots with each profile, I have no confidence that the selections are being changed at all, even when they are claimed to be engaged when checking the standard Menu items. 

Has anyone shown that this doesn't exist in every M11? The Leica Store-LA was able to reproduce this behavior on a demo.

If I understand you correctly, you lose your setup changes when you turn the camera off and you have been trying to overcome that issue by saving your setup changes in a user profile.

I have not set up any user profiles, so the Default Profile on my M11 is active. Notwithstanding, all my prior setup changes remain in effect when I turn the camera on. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by mon10a

[digitalfx]

Mine does not reset to default, it starts back up with the last profile used.

 

Look in the main PROFILES menu and the active profile will have a red "active" next to it.

[AandW]

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I am still researching the M11 (don’t own) and while reading the manual I noticed this note on page 52.  It may or may not be relevant to the issue described here.

“Do not remove the rechargeable battery! Settings are not saved permanently until the camera is switched off. Unsaved changes will be lost if the battery is removed while the camera is running. “

[mboerma]

58 minutes ago, AandW said:

I am still researching the M11 (don’t own) and while reading the manual I noticed this note on page 52.  It may or may not be relevant to the issue described here.

“Do not remove the rechargeable battery! Settings are not saved permanently until the camera is switched off. Unsaved changes will be lost if the battery is removed while the camera is running. “

Thanks. But in my case the battery was not removed. The profile info seems to be saved. The Status Screen just doesn't show the correct values and there are other issues with the User Profiles and the way you have to set them. The manual is actually really limited with info.

[AlanJW]

The issue of file size inside a profile not being reported properly on the status screens has been reported elsewhere.  I have seen that too. 

[cldp]

I also did not remove the battery.

If you don’t create at least one User Profile, then the camera will not save any changes you make to the Factory Setting. 

From the Manual under User Profiles: This camera allows the permanent storage of any menu settings, to e.g. access them quickly and easily for recurring conditions/image objects. Six memory slots are provided to store custom settings, plus the factory setting, which is always available and cannot be modified ( Default Profile ). You can assign names for the saved profiles yourself.

No digital M I’ve ever owned had a permanent Factory Profile installed.

On the next page under Notes:  Existing profiles are overwritten with the latest settings.

I sounds to me that this Notes line means that any changes to a User Profile are retained in that particular Profile when Active, without actually re-saving them. 

The problem is that when changing between User Profiles, the DNG size settings (L-M-S), if they differ between profiles, show up improperly in the Quick Menu AND don’t actually change when shooting. When I change to a User Profile in the Quick Menu from one that’s set up to be a Large DNG to  one’s that’s Medium, the camera still shoots a Large (60MP) file. 

This issue does not occur with none of the other camera settings in the Quick Menu (Status Screen). The color temp, meter behavior, file format, etc, all work properly. Only the DNG file size has this problem.

It’s a very complicated issue to explain, sorry I haven’t found a simpler way to say all this.

 

[mboerma]

1 minute ago, cldp said:

....

No digital M I’ve ever owned had a permanent Factory Profile installed.

On the next page under Notes:  Existing profiles are overwritten with the latest settings.

I sounds to me that this Notes line means that any changes to a User Profile are retained in that particular Profile when Active, without actually re-saving them. 

The problem is that when changing between User Profiles, the DNG size settings (L-M-S), if they differ between profiles, show up improperly in the Quick Menu AND don’t actually change when shooting. When I change to a User Profile in the Quick Menu from one that’s set up to be a Large DNG to  one’s that’s Medium, the camera still shoots a Large (60MP) file. 

This issue does not occur with none of the other camera settings in the Quick Menu (Status Screen). The color temp, meter behavior, file format, etc, all work properly. Only the DNG file size has this problem.

It’s a very complicated issue to explain, sorry I haven’t found a simpler way to say all this.

 

Agree. I tested it on my SL2 and it works differently there. It is very confusing. 

When changing a setting of a created profile I don't think it saves this change. I hope not. If you tap the User Profile icon on the Status Screen it will show the first icon on that list (a person with a circle with an X).

I've sent an email to Leica camera support in Germany, linking this thread. Is it working as designed? (Which I do not like, but that is another topic.) Or is it a bug?

[M11 for me]

I had that "problem" as well. But I found out what was wrong. I must admit now that I just cross read the posts above. But hope the answer was not given already:

When my camera is set to Medium DNG then I realized that on the status screen I see large DNG. Finally I found out that whenever you pressed the crop button to 1.3 or 1.8 that status screen switches to Large. When ending the crop the stats screen is correct again. So when thinking it through twice I think that there is quite a bit of logic behind that. What I fo not like is that I can not see anywhere that crop is on when the LCD is off. So it was a bit confusing. But niw I know that Large on the status screen means Crop is on.

[mboerma]

5 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

I had that "problem" as well. But I found out what was wrong. I must admit now that I just cross read the posts above. But hope the answer was not given already:

When my camera is set to Medium DNG then I realized that on the status screen I see large DNG. Finally I found out that whenever you pressed the crop button to 1.3 or 1.8 that status screen switches to Large. When ending the crop the stats screen is correct again. So when thinking it through twice I think that there is quite a bit of logic behind that. What I fo not like is that I can not see anywhere that crop is on when the LCD is off. So it was a bit confusing. But niw I know that Large on the status screen means Crop is on.

Not sure if I understand you correctly, and I'm glad you solved your problem, but in my case I have not even touched the Crop / Digital zoom option since I got the camera. Digital Zoom and DNG size are two different things. There might be a link in that Digital zoom only works with the Large-DNG (I don't know, not investigated this or tested it).

[cldp]

16 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

I had that "problem" as well. But I found out what was wrong. I must admit now that I just cross read the posts above. But hope the answer was not given already:

When my camera is set to Medium DNG then I realized that on the status screen I see large DNG. Finally I found out that whenever you pressed the crop button to 1.3 or 1.8 that status screen switches to Large. When ending the crop the stats screen is correct again. So when thinking it through twice I think that there is quite a bit of logic behind that. What I fo not like is that I can not see anywhere that crop is on when the LCD is off. So it was a bit confusing. But niw I know that Large on the status screen means Crop is on.

When changing the crop size, the camera always reverts to a Large file, that’s the way it’s supposed to operate.

In my case, I never attempted or accidentally changed the crop size. This issue occurs when changing User Profiles, the DNG file size (60-36-18) doesn’t cooperate properly and/or is depicted in the Status Menu incorrectly.

So, what you’re describing is unrelated to this issue and is actually the way the camera is designed. Engaging the crop feature changes the DNG file size to 60MP (Large).

Edited January 24, 2022 by cldp

[M11 for me]

I did not read correctly. As I understood your start screen shows Lage even though medium is choosen (as you wrote that setting is correctly shown in the main menu.)

However I see now when changing the Profile the indication stays as before. In my case turning on and off the camera changes nothing (It remains wrong). But when pressing Crop button 3 times and eventually the indication is back to correct.

It seems not working fully correct. I am a bit upset anyway that the next firmware update is to be expected for fall. That is very late . .

[M11 for me]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb cldp:

When changing the crop size, the camera always reverts to a Large file, that’s the way it’s supposed to operate.

In my case, I never attempted or accidentally changed the crop size. This issue occurs when changing User Profiles, the DNG file size (60-36-18) doesn’t cooperate properly and/or is depicted in the Status Menu incorrectly.

So, what you’re describing is unrelated to this issue and is actually the way the camera is designed. Engaging the crop feature changes the DNG file size to 60MP (Large).

You are right and in my post I describe that behaviour as logic. I might mix up the TOs point. He relates to profiles.

[dkmoore]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:51 PM, cldp said:

For me, the problem with not using profiles is that when I turn the camera off, it restarts with the Leica Standard Profile. That might have been useful during production testing, but the user will want their camera setup to be retained when the camera is shut off. Every other M worked that way. I was quite surprised that the M11 kept forcing the Leica profile on me.

My work around was to set up my own User Profiles and that's how I discovered the DNG size selection flaw. I would change profiles from a Large DNG to a Medium DNG and save those to Profiles. After testing by shooting some shots with each profile, I have no confidence that the selections are being changed at all, even when they are claimed to be engaged when checking the standard Menu items. 

Has anyone shown that this doesn't exist in every M11? The Leica Store-LA was able to reproduce this behavior on a demo.

I’m experiencing exactly this. Also, even when I load a profile it will not save my shutter speed preference 1/2f

[dkmoore]

What is the latest firmware that the M11 should have? 
 

I haven’t looked hard but I only see the ability to customize the wheel and can’t locate the other customization options. Would have expected them all to be in the same section. Prob premature post as I didn’t look very hard. I find this menu less intuitive then the M10 list. I’ll get used to it but it’s a little more cumbersome. When favorites will actually save it will be better. 

[Stevejack]

10 hours ago, M10 for me said:

I am a bit upset anyway that the next firmware update is to be expected for fall. That is very late . .

I'm not sure what exactly will be fixed, but there is supposed to be an update coming out in the next few days to correct some specific early issues so you might not be waiting as long as you think.

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[digitalfx]

1 hour ago, dkmoore said:

What is the latest firmware that the M11 should have? 
 

I haven’t looked hard but I only see the ability to customize the wheel and can’t locate the other customization options. Would have expected them all to be in the same section. Prob premature post as I didn’t look very hard. I find this menu less intuitive then the M10 list. I’ll get used to it but it’s a little more cumbersome. When favorites will actually save it will be better. 

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