Is the Panasonic S1R the better Leica SL2?

[01maciel]

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Meanwhile, just a little off-topic, I managed to visit the Museum of Photography, a permanent exhibition of Helmut Newton photos, magazines with photos of and from him, and some gear he used to shoot with. I am wondering that he was able to gain fame and honour with this simple mechanical toos like the Fuji G617.

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S1R + 35mm F1.2 DG DN | Art 019

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[FrankX]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb tom.w.bn:

Significantly? I don't believe this at all. There is no use posting a reference to something behind a paywall.

Sorry, I didn't expect that this paywall is a significant barrier for anyone here... If you search for Reid Reviews here in the forum you'll quickly find out that it is worth the money. 

Of course, 'significantly' is a rather soft term, but you can really see the difference quite clearly in 100% view with all tested Sigma and Leica L-mount lenses. However, the SL2 advantage was negligible with a Panasonic S-Pro lens.

BTW, I guess this is also the reason for the relatively weak performance of the Summicron-SL 35 at DXO mark. They tested this lens using a Panasonic S1R body.

[Reddy]

5 hours ago, FrankX said:

Sorry, I didn't expect that this paywall is a significant barrier for anyone here... If you search for Reid Reviews here in the forum you'll quickly find out that it is worth the money. 

Of course, 'significantly' is a rather soft term, but you can really see the difference quite clearly in 100% view with all tested Sigma and Leica L-mount lenses. However, the SL2 advantage was negligible with a Panasonic S-Pro lens.

BTW, I guess this is also the reason for the relatively weak performance of the Summicron-SL 35 at DXO mark. They tested this lens using a Panasonic S1R body.

The technology has improved so much and the filter on sensor is kind of like a give or take decision.  S1 and S1R share the same sensors to the SL and SL2 cameras. Ignore what glasses you put on and the colour science from the companies, the sensors could output the same performance. I own same vintage lenses from M/R/M42 to modern APO Leica glasses, I put them on S1H (the only S camera has that filter on sensor), the images are better than M8 and M240 (not talking about the colour but clarity).  The Helios still a bit soft from all camera but the R19mm f2.8, R APO180mm f2.8, SL AA50mm f2 and M50mm f2 DR still sharp as they should be. The sharpness on the SL AA50mm f2 is deadly even wide open at f2, corner to corner, any make-up defect on model face can easily see. For my choice of S1H is more about handling, and in image terms I prefer clear the moire on images instead of doing all that on the Capture One later. If you only have Leica glass then SL camera for sure, if you do video or liking to mix and match then there are many more choices. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Reddy

[Mick H]

1 hour ago, Reddy said:

The technology has improved so much and the filter on sensor is kind of like a give or take decision.  S1 and S1R share the same sensors to the SL and SL2 cameras. Ignore what glasses you put on and the colour science from the companies, the sensors could output the same performance. I own same vintage lenses from M/R/M42 to modern APO Leica glasses, I put them on S1H (the only S camera has that filter on sensor), the images are better than M8 and M240 (not talking about the colour but clarity).  The Helios still a bit soft from all camera but the R19mm f2.8, R APO180mm f2.8, SL AA50mm f2 and M50mm f2 DR still sharp as they should be. The sharpness on the SL AA50mm f2 is deadly even wide open at f2, corner to corner, any make-up defect on model face can easily see. For my choice of S1H is more about handling, and in image terms I prefer clear the moire on images instead of doing all that on the Capture One later. If you only have Leica glass then SL camera for sure, if you do video or liking to mix and match then there are many more choices. 

I have the S1H as well for video and photo.  I have the SL.  From my testing, the S1H is very sharp despite the AA filter compared to the SL.  They are comparable.

[Reddy]

4 minutes ago, Mick H said:

I have the S1H as well for video and photo.  I have the SL.  From my testing, the S1H is very sharp despite the AA filter compared to the SL.  They are comparable.

This is why I got the S1H over the SL2-S, I don't need the extra ISO and I don't use sigma lens or even Panasonic lens. SL glass on S1H, the AF performance is on par with SL camera with SL glasses when I need it. And for video Leica has no advantage as mostly we use it with external monitor with recording,  like Blackmagic assist or the Ninja V. Manual R lenses are for the video guys and they ain't interested in M lenses at all. So basically there is no comparison needed over there, but back to the topic, hardware I don't see either S1R or SL2 is better than the other but personal feels, software wise it's like RAW compare to DNG, I would have no idea.

[MrSMW]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:56 AM, Reddy said:

But I have chosen the heaviest of all, the S1H for handling and functionality issues.

Extremely underrated camera for stills.

It's always talked about because of it's video capability, but it's brilliant for anyone that does not need anything with more megapixels and doesn't mind a bit of chunk.

The reality is it isn't that big or heavy unless used with big or heavy lenses, but pair it with smaller & lighter primes and it's fantastic.

For me, it's easily my favourite design and handling camera I have ever had.

I prefer the S1R for stills however due to it's 47mp sensor and whether my clients would notice is another matter, but I do and so that's why I use it.

I use:

S1R 90% dedicated to stills with maybe 10% video use.

S1H 100% static video for anything that needs longer than 30 minutes recording time in 10 bit 4k.

S5 90% roaming video, handheld or monopod (because it's a fair bit lighter than the S1H over a long day!) and around 10% stills for those times when I don't need hi res results.

I'd like to see Panny come out with a next gen hybrid of all 3: the higher megapixel capability of the S1R with the S1H body/design in something closer to S5 size & weight. Take my money now! But until then, the above combo works really well for my needs.

 

[Mick H]

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13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I'd like to see Panny come out with a next gen hybrid of all 3: the higher megapixel capability of the S1R with the S1H body/design in something closer to S5 size & weight. Take my money now! But until then, the above combo works really well for my needs.

 

Agreed.  After using a GFX100S, I enjoy the higher resolution for stills.  I use the S1H for video and the SL for studio/client work.  The S1H-2 should be an compelling L Mount hybrid camera.  

[Reddy]

14 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Extremely underrated camera for stills.

It's always talked about because of it's video capability, but it's brilliant for anyone that does not need anything with more megapixels and doesn't mind a bit of chunk.

The reality is it isn't that big or heavy unless used with big or heavy lenses, but pair it with smaller & lighter primes and it's fantastic.

For me, it's easily my favourite design and handling camera I have ever had.

I prefer the S1R for stills however due to it's 47mp sensor and whether my clients would notice is another matter, but I do and so that's why I use it.

I use:

S1R 90% dedicated to stills with maybe 10% video use.

S1H 100% static video for anything that needs longer than 30 minutes recording time in 10 bit 4k.

S5 90% roaming video, handheld or monopod (because it's a fair bit lighter than the S1H over a long day!) and around 10% stills for those times when I don't need hi res results.

I'd like to see Panny come out with a next gen hybrid of all 3: the higher megapixel capability of the S1R with the S1H body/design in something closer to S5 size & weight. Take my money now! But until then, the above combo works really well for my needs.

 

Hardly see the future S2H will be smaller as the GH6 also have the internal fan. I'm guessing S2H would be a 8K camera, higher pixels and 14-bits or higher. Also there will be internal ProRes RAW, and with Blackmagic assist, you could have one video camera with 2 different vdieo outputs. Lastly, the price surely cheaper than M11.

[Archiver]

35 minutes ago, Artin said:

I owned the S1R for a few months between my first SL2. And the next SL2.   
and there is no question on which one is better in my opinion.  
the Leica SL2 in my opinion is the finest Full Frame Camera made to date. 
in the 18 months between when I sold my original SL2 and purchase of my current SL2 .GFX 100s, and Z7||. 
nothing felt as good as the SL2 .

Handling/feel aside, how is the image quality and autofocus of the SL2 compared with the S1R? A secondhand S1R in excellent condition is way less than a SL2, and as much as I like the handling of the SL2, it is difficult to justify spending that much more for feel. On the other hand, the M9 is my favourite camera of all time, partly because of feel, partly because of the colours and pixel-level sharpness, and it was relatively easy to justify paying more for a M9 than a Canon 1D variant of that time.

[Artin]

10 minutes ago, Archiver said:

Handling/feel aside, how is the image quality and autofocus of the SL2 compared with the S1R? A secondhand S1R in excellent condition is way less than a SL2, and as much as I like the handling of the SL2, it is difficult to justify spending that much more for feel. On the other hand, the M9 is my favourite camera of all time, partly because of feel, partly because of the colours and pixel-level sharpness, and it was relatively easy to justify paying more for a M9 than a Canon 1D variant of that time.

The performance is pretty much the same , the IQ is nearly the same as far as most lenses are concerned save for wider M Glass. The Leica sensor is tweaked different, grain in higher ISO is more organic. For me the build quality the simplicity of the layout the buttons and the menus of the SL2  was just irreplaceable. Having said that the S1R is 1/3rd the price and in my opinion a good value 

[bags27]

By happenstance, I'm renting the S1r now, deciding whether to replace my Fuji GFX-r for scanning negatives. I've really grown fond of the S1R and almost certainly will swap it for the Fuji.

When the SL2 first came out, I was in the first tranche on the waiting list, and on 2 (or 3) occasions walked around the block at the Leica Store sampling the camera, trying to convince myself I liked it. No dice. But now I like the S1R...a lot. Go figure....

[Chris W]

How does the S5 compare to the S1R? - stills only, not video.

[Reddy]

2 hours ago, Chris W said:

How does the S5 compare to the S1R? - stills only, not video.

less resolution and higher ISO, everything else is a downgrade of S1R, including EVF and LCD screen. S5 is more for traveling and wedding purposes. 

[Planetwide]

I own the S1R, SL2. and SL2s, and the S1R is better with Panasonic lenses than my SL2. The SL2 is slightly better with Leica SL lenses, but in no way is the difference "Significant". I would say, that the differences between the camera's and their native lenses, is due to internal corrections and processing - Vignetting, CA & distortion corrections etc...

The SL2 has the advantage of much better performance with most M lenses.

The S1R has the advantage of affordability, and the S Series lenses are exceptional. The 24-105mm is the best of any manufacturer. The 16-35mm, and 70-200mm F4 are very good as well.

I like the ergonomics of each equally. The S1R feels more professional, and is faster to use in the field due to the buttons. The SL2 has a more polished feel, and is still easy to use.

Image quality is very very close, with the SL2 having better out of the camera colours. Both can be matched in lightroom.

The S1R is probably the best value in a stills camera right now.

 

[mdavidp]

Hi all.

I owned and used the Panasonic S1r for a season.

I currently own the Leica SL2.

The sensors are diffrrent. The files from the Leica are much nicer.

I use both Leica sl 24-90mm. and Sigma L mount lenses and am quite pleased with the results.

No way was the IQ from the Panasonic as good.

Michael P

[jaapv]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:42 PM, Reddy said:

less resolution and higher ISO, everything else is a downgrade of S1R, including EVF and LCD screen. S5 is more for traveling and wedding purposes. 

The current camera is the S5ii with the points you mention significantly improved. And far beter AF than any SL or other S camera. And a sensor developed in conjunction with Leica. Possibly the cousin of a future SL3S. 

[Donald M]

Due to the fact that my sl601 is back to Leica for replacing the plastic parts in my eyecup, I am fortunate to be able to loan from a friend a Lumix s5iix. In all aspects but one the s5 is the better camera I have to admit. Especially lower noise and no banding are standing out for me. The one thing I find difficult to get used to are the many knobs and functions, how well placed they might be. Sometimes by accident I push a button and don’t know how to get back. My installed user profiles always saves me. The video button is one of those knobs, so suddenly I have a bit of video without noticing😁. Although the build quality of the s5iix is not bad at all, it feels more plasticky than my SL. 
As I am using Cobalt Standard raw profiles for both cameras, the colour output is the same with the same (l-mount) lenses. I did not try my M and R lenses though. 
In short: very happy with the camera, especially if you take into account the base price for both cameras. If you also take into account that digital cameras are shorter lived than the traditional film cameras, a less expensive digital replacement once in five years or so might be more bearable. 

[mdavidp]

Hi 

I owned the panasonic S1r two years ago with some Panasonic S lenses.

The IQ was good. I wanted something better.

I ended up trying the Sl2. This is what I found:

Two completely different sensors.

The Leica sensor is manufactured in Europe

For leica, no one else.

The L lenses are much better than the Panasonic lenses I used.

If a 3000.00 camera and lens produced the same results who would spend 9000.00?

Even the Sigma glass I use now is better than the panasonic glass I remember.

M

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Hallo,

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[jaapv]

Precisely. Who would?  I am quite happy with my S5ii and Sigma lenses. The sensor is Panasonic in cooperation with Leica, Leica tends to rebadge Sigma lenses and I don’t like wasting thousands of dollars. 
of course Leica lenses are quite unique and their qualities attract a group of perfectionist buyers but if we are honest with ourselves those last two percent do we really need them? 

[BernardC]

17 hours ago, Donald M said:

Due to the fact that my sl601 is back to Leica for replacing the plastic parts in my eyecup, I am fortunate to be able to loan from a friend a Lumix s5iix. In all aspects but one the s5 is the better camera I have to admit.

Don't forget that you are comparing a 2015 camera with a 2023 camera! Granted, the SL was the best 24MP camera back then, but time waits for no one.