M10R - Q2M or M10M

[Guest]

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Hi all,

Well, I recently added a (used mint) M10R having shot Q2Mono exclusively for close to a year. Missed color from time to time and M shooting (previously had M262 and then M246).

Now, back in love with M and my M10R. I have the following lenses: 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit ASPH V2, 35mm f/2 Summicron ASPH V2 and 50mm f/2.4 Summarit.

Now, I’m considering trading in my Q2Mono towards a M10Mono and committing fully to M shooting. Love the idea of being able to use my lenses across both camera bodies. And shooting M is simply more involving and romantic.

Pros of staying with Q2M is:

- Having mono camera also, and not spending extra $$.

- Quick for reportage and casual shooting with AF and matrix metering.

- Two different experiences btw shooting Q and M.

I mainly shoot daily documentary/reportage of my life with my wife and people close to me and a bit of landscape and mood/city scapes from time to time.

Any thoughts/advice (apart from “only you can decide”) would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Mads

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[Guest]

No help, hence feel free to delete, Admin.

[KateStarr]

Ha, I was just about to help...or at least give you my take.

 

I have and M10R, M10M and Q2M. I had the M10M first, and then rented the Q2M before eventually buying one. I'll likely be selling my M10M shortly.

For me, the Q2M wins out over the M10M because of the EVF. It makes a huge different for me to be able to see the image in B&W before I take it, and also to see if I'm clipping the highlights or not. I also love that the Q2M is weather sealed, so it's the camera I take with me if it's raining/snowing. Lastly, and probably most importantly, since I got my Q2M, whenever I want to shoot in B&W that's the camera I grab, not the M10M. I'm not sure why exactly that is, but that's just the reality of it.

Have you tried using an M10M? You might want to rent one before you make your decision.

Hope this helps.

[John Miranda]

I have both the M10R and M10M, I like the shared platform, shared lenses, similar menu, buttons, etc, and using 1 VIsoflex as needed across either body.  

Sometimes I walk with just one camera depending on the frame of mind I am in (color or bw).  On occasion I carry both bodies in a small side bag, one say with 35mm lens on it, the other with 50mm lens, which gives swapping flexibility, but still a relatively compact bag.

On occasion I think that I can convert M10R to B&W and reduce my investment of a second M body, but the M10M in its own right is such a special camera, so for now, keeping both.

[ymc226]

I had the original color Q and very much liked the fast 28mm lens and autofocus but part of the satisfaction for me in photography is the ability to try different looks in terms of lenses.  As such, I sold the Q (already had the M9P and M9M) and bought Mandler lenses in addition to the current ASPH lenses.  My main focal lengths were 28 and 50 but as I wanted more "vintage" lenses, I added 35mm as well.  Now I shoot with M9P, M9M, M10R, M10M and don't miss the Q's autofocus at all.  Can now shoot with the pre-ASPH 35 lux V2, pre-ASPH Summicron V3+4, and pre-ASPH 50 lux V1+2 in addition to other focal lengths.

[RayD28]

On 1/19/2022 at 5:01 PM, John Miranda said:

I have both the M10R and M10M, I like the shared platform, shared lenses, similar menu, buttons, etc, and using 1 VIsoflex as needed across either body.  

Sometimes I walk with just one camera depending on the frame of mind I am in (color or bw).  On occasion I carry both bodies in a small side bag, one say with 35mm lens on it, the other with 50mm lens, which gives swapping flexibility, but still a relatively compact bag.

On occasion I think that I can convert M10R to B&W and reduce my investment of a second M body, but the M10M in its own right is such a special camera, so for now, keeping both.

I read some of Sean Reid's review of the M11 and my jaw dropped when he compared ISO performance to it and the M10M.  The M10M is a light-gobbling monster and it looked like ISO 50,000 is easily usable.  I can understand why you say the M10M is special.  

[RayD28]

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On 1/18/2022 at 2:38 PM, mcpallesen said:

Hi all,

Well, I recently added a (used mint) M10R having shot Q2Mono exclusively for close to a year. Missed color from time to time and M shooting (previously had M262 and then M246).

Now, back in love with M and my M10R. I have the following lenses: 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit ASPH V2, 35mm f/2 Summicron ASPH V2 and 50mm f/2.4 Summarit.

Now, I’m considering trading in my Q2Mono towards a M10Mono and committing fully to M shooting. Love the idea of being able to use my lenses across both camera bodies. And shooting M is simply more involving and romantic.

Pros of staying with Q2M is:

- Having mono camera also, and not spending extra $$.

- Quick for reportage and casual shooting with AF and matrix metering.

- Two different experiences btw shooting Q and M.

I mainly shoot daily documentary/reportage of my life with my wife and people close to me and a bit of landscape and mood/city scapes from time to time.

Any thoughts/advice (apart from “only you can decide”) would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Mads

Never used the Q2M but from what I know about the M10M I'd get one.  You might give up some cropping flexibility by not having the Q2M but you've got a good assortment of lenses so you may not have to do much cropping. 

Best of luck.  

[charlesphoto99]

Just bought a 'used' M10M yesterday after a Friday inquiry with our local Leica User Group. The previous owner had never even taken the camera out of the box - apparently he'd bought it for a trip that then fell through due to the pandemic, and then stuck the box on a shelf. So I was the first one to ever handle it! For $7K I'm quite happy. It is a low light monster that's for sure. Taking it skiing later today to see how it does with snow and  bright light (yes, I take brand new cameras skiing). 

[stefanusj]

to me, M10M (M9M and M246) is a very special camera and i always called it a "niche" camera. I don't recommend to use such camera to beginner because of the limitation of it. 

I think the idea of Q2M is Leica tries to makes "easier transition" for the niche market. Again, Q is always a "gateway" to Leica world...

i can not gives a qualititave results from M10M (with 28Lux or 28Cron) vs Q2M, or the contrast difference. But if you really loves the idea of shooting monochrome, i suggest just go for M Monochrome (M9M or M246 or M10M).

[Jeff S]

13 hours ago, RayD28 said:

The M10M is a light-gobbling monster and it looked like ISO 50,000 is easily usable.

As David Farkas showed last year…

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/02/bw-iso-showdown-2021-leica-q2-monochrom-vs-m10-monochrom-vs-q2-vs-m10-r/
 

He’s done a few of these comparisons, and plans another at some point with the M11.

Jeff

[yossarian123]

I'm quite happy with my MM246 - so far I haven't found a use for ISO 50,000 or higher and the files from the 246 seem at least as good as the M10M - plus the battery life is fantastic.  

I'll admit that I'm tempted with upgrading my original Q to an Q2M though.  I hate the extra work of converting color to BW in post since most of my "keepers" are BW anyways I might as well just save some effort in Lightroom.   How is the battery life on the Q2M? 

[eon]

It's not as easy to share lenses between M10-R and M10-M when the filter need to be put on and come off all the time.

I appreciate the thought of both the color camera and the b&w camera being ready in the bag and able to shoot at anytime. 

[Herr Barnack]

On 1/18/2022 at 3:38 PM, mcpallesen said:

Hi all,

Well, I recently added a (used mint) M10R having shot Q2Mono exclusively for close to a year. Missed color from time to time and M shooting (previously had M262 and then M246).

Now, back in love with M and my M10R. I have the following lenses: 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit ASPH V2, 35mm f/2 Summicron ASPH V2 and 50mm f/2.4 Summarit.

Now, I’m considering trading in my Q2Mono towards a M10Mono and committing fully to M shooting. Love the idea of being able to use my lenses across both camera bodies. And shooting M is simply more involving and romantic.

Pros of staying with Q2M is:

- Having mono camera also, and not spending extra $$.

- Quick for reportage and casual shooting with AF and matrix metering.

- Two different experiences btw shooting Q and M.

I mainly shoot daily documentary/reportage of my life with my wife and people close to me and a bit of landscape and mood/city scapes from time to time.

Any thoughts/advice (apart from “only you can decide”) would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Mads

@mcpallesen  What advantages would trading your Q2 Mono for an M10 Mono give you?  You would be able to use your 28mm 35mm and 50mm lenses on the M10M.  Is that something you absolutely have to have?

Trading in your Q2M will mean you lose the 28/1.7 Summilux lens and its macro capabilities, along with losing the thin depth of field and bokeh that f/1.7 gives you.  You also lose the weather sealing of the Q2M. 

I understand the attraction of being able to use all three lenses on both M cameras; you will lose some advantages of the Q2M's f/1.7 lens, though.  And some $$$.

I have the other side of the coin - I have a color Q2 and an M10 Mono.  Both are keepers IMHO.  I can't see trading off either one for the foreseeable future.  I can see trading off my M-P 240 Safari on an M11, if the price is right - but when you trade, the price is never right for the person doing the trading.  "The House" always wins, just like in Las Vegas. 🙄

My advice would be think carefully before trading.  Once you trade, there is no un-trading if you come to regret your decision a month (or six months) down the road.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[KeyofG]

I would stop buying stuff and start taking pictures. You don’t really even need both cameras. M10R converted to B&W is just as good. After editing, the only difference will be noise at high ISO. For every day use those monochrome cameras make no difference. 
 

Sell the Q2 and use the money to take those people you take pictures of somewhere nice. That’ll give you better photos than an M Monochrome. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by KeyofG

[timo01]

i had the q2 and now the m10.

personally, i'm glad to have an m again. the q2 is a great camera but it's not an m. for me the q2 is like a sony or fuji. it doesn't feel like a leica to me.

but don't get me wrong, the q2 is a great camera.

[MaticB]

It is feeling, very common to all M users - romantic, involving... etc. I'm one of them, so I understand your dilema - to have 2 cameras in M range, using excellent lens all the time, feeling pleasant emotions just pressing release button. I went through similar thoughts many time, I even sell some of my equipment (elmarit 28, summicron 35), not to mentioned,  later  always regret it. In the last 8 months I bought (irrationaly somehow - again, very common among Leica fans) Q2, and M10R BP, adding them to M240, Summilux 28 and 50. Now I'm waiting for APO 35, in between consider selling either Q2 or Summilux 28. Anyway, leasons from the past teach me, not to sell anything (if you can afford it, of course)! Namely, you can always find reasons to use this or that. Bad weather, travelig light, one-camera do-it-all - it calls almost mandatory for Q2, (or in your case Q2M). So, it is a keeper! On the other hand, taking photographs for intimate pleasure, watching later quality prints with something, called "Leica look", almost forbid selling anything from M range (although Q2 or Q2M has excellent summilux lens, out of focus rendering is not quite the same as with M lens). Even more, each M has its own characteristic too, so I don't even consider selling M240. 

My advice would be - dont sell anything, wait some time, and if you find inevitable adding M10 M to your gear, buy it!

[jplomley]

20 hours ago, KeyofG said:

I would stop buying stuff and start taking pictures. You don’t really even need both cameras. M10R converted to B&W is just as good. After editing, the only difference will be noise at high ISO. For every day use those monochrome cameras make no difference. 
 

Sell the Q2 and use the money to take those people you take pictures of somewhere nice. That’ll give you better photos than an M Monochrome. 

Yeah, that would be false. I have SL2, M10-R and M10M. You cannot replicate the rich gray tones of the M10M nor the separation of blacks in the first quarter tone via color conversion from those models. The noise pattern is also completely different, most notable when printed. And then there is the focused mind-set derived from knowing you can only record in B&W. It changes the way you see and the subject matter you may record. 

[blackdot]

I have an M10 and M246, and sometimes wish I had a Q2/Q2M instead. It depends on the weather that day, as I am not easily able to focus an M while holding an umbrella.

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[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, blackdot said:

 It depends on the weather that day, as I am not easily able to focus an M while holding an umbrella.

Maybe consider a wide brimmed rain hat, and a light rain jacket for camera protection while walking.  Have never had a problem in light/moderate rain (I never shoot in pouring rain), with any M since the 80's.

Jeff

[T25UFO]

9 hours ago, blackdot said:

I have an M10 and M246, and sometimes wish I had a Q2/Q2M instead. It depends on the weather that day, as I am not easily able to focus an M while holding an umbrella.

I had SL2 and M10M.  Sold both and bought M10R for colour and Q2M for black and white.  The Q2M is brilliant and have since added a Q2 Reporter.  Despite having nice lenses for the M10R, I find I'm more often using the Q2 combination.  The 28mm lens doesn't bother me - often shoot in 35mm crop mode, which is perfectly fine.