Side-by-side comparison of M11 vs. M10-R vs. M10-M (M10 Monochrome) at ISO 12,500 and 25,000

[onasj]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Here is a side-by-side comparison shooting the same live subject with the same lens on the M11, M10-R, and M10-M:

M10-M with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500

M10-M with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000

M10-R with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500

M10-R with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000

M11 with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500

M11 with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000

The images were shot handheld (but at 1/4000 s - 1/8000 s while the subject was mostly asleep so motion blur is not an issue).  The M11 images were scaled down to the the same size of the M10-R and M10-M images.  The RAW images were opened in Photoshop and auto-corrected.  A 1800x1800-pixel crop is shown from each image.

Original RAW and cropped JPEG files are here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0lcvkbev6xmhg7/AAC3MEg36cS28Ppn5-YBG18ua?dl=0

Special thanks to the live subject's corporation despite being elderly, feeling sleepy, and having bed head.

*Note: the forum's images are compressed and lose significant detail. Click on each image, or download the original files using the link above to see detail capture.

 

1) M10-M with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by onasj

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[onasj]

2) M10-M with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[onasj]

3) M10-R with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[onasj]

4) M10-R with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

:

 

[onasj]

5) M11 with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[onasj]

6) M11 with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited January 16, 2022 by onasj

[onasj]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7) M11 with 50 APO @ f/5.6, ISO 12500, converted to B&W simply by desaturating the photo:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[onasj]

😎M11 with 50 APO @ f/8, ISO 25000, converted to B&W simply by desaturating the photo:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited January 16, 2022 by onasj

[onasj]

Some conclusions:

- The M10-Monochrome continues to be magic with respect to high ISO noise. The M10-M file is cleaner at ISO 25000 than either of the color cameras at ISO 12500.  Losing most of your photons to a color filter array clearly comes at a price.

- The M10-Monochrome captures quite a bit more detail than the M10-R at the same ISO.

- The M11 captures noticeably more detail than either the M10-Monochrome or the M10-R at the same ISO, despite the fact that I scaled down the full-sized M11 image to match the size of the images from the other cameras.

- The M11 offers maybe half a stop of reduced high-ISO noise level compared to the M10-R, while capturing more detail.  Which is great given that the M10-R is no slouch.

- Colors on the M11 straight out of the camera or after auto-correction are quite a bit more saturated and are also more accurate than with the M10-R.  I don't think this is just RAW tinkering—I believe the revised RGGB color filter array over the M11 sensor actually does a better job capturing realistic colors (not just based on this test but based on shooting a variety of subjects with the M10-R and the M11).

- All the cameras are pretty amazing given that I was shooting at ISO 12500 and 25000 and capturing loads of fine details.  Here is the full scene (M11 @ ISO 12500):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited January 16, 2022 by onasj

[Erato]

@onasj Awesome...^^b

[insideline]

2 hours ago, onasj said:

Some conclusions:

- The M10-Monochrome continues to be magic with respect to high ISO noise. The M10-M file is cleaner at ISO 25000 than either of the color cameras at ISO 12500.  Losing most of your photons to a color filter array clearly comes at a price.

- The M10-Monochrome captures quite a bit more detail than the M10-R at the same ISO.

- The M11 captures noticeably more detail than either the M10-Monochrome or the M10-R at the same ISO, despite the fact that I scaled down the full-sized M11 image to match the size of the images from the other cameras.

- The M11 offers maybe half a stop of reduced high-ISO noise level compared to the M10-R, while capturing more detail.  Which is great given that the M10-R is no slouch.

- Colors on the M11 straight out of the camera or after auto-correction are quite a bit more saturated and are also more accurate than with the M10-R.  I don't think this is just RAW tinkering—I believe the revised RGGB color filter array over the M11 sensor actually does a better job capturing realistic colors (not just based on this test but based on shooting a variety of subjects with the M10-R and the M11).

- All the cameras are pretty amazing given that I was shooting at ISO 12500 and 25000 and capturing loads of fine details.  Here is the full scene (M11 @ ISO 12500):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thank you Onasj for taking the time to do this comparison for us all. I am an M10M owner so have been waiting for at least some initial thoughts on how it compares to the new M11, but when I opened up the M11 at 12,500 ISO and the M10M at the same 12500 it sure appeared to me that the M10 Monochrom provided not only a cleaner image but also more detail, did I miss something? Thank you again for all this work.

[horosu]

44 minutes ago, insideline said:

Thank you Onasj for taking the time to do this comparison for us all. I am an M10M owner so have been waiting for at least some initial thoughts on how it compares to the new M11, but when I opened up the M11 at 12,500 ISO and the M10M at the same 12500 it sure appeared to me that the M10 Monochrom provided not only a cleaner image but also more detail, did I miss something? Thank you again for all this work.

There is no contest here: the M10-M is king of the lowlight world IMHO.

However, I was pleasantly surprised by how well the M10-R performed. Its colours look also much more natural to my eye

Edited January 16, 2022 by horosu

[Sjz]

Thank you (and your furry subject 🙂 ) I am really interested in the comparisons between the M11 and the ‘R’.  I have the M10M and your review gives me a base point to judge from.

I really like the colours in the M10 R photo thread, I think there is something special happening there and I am looking forward to seeing the M11 thread filling with photos>. Very interesting that your feline friends colours are more faithfully replicated by the ‘11’.

 

thank you again for sharing.

[digitalfx]

"The M11 images were scaled down to the the same size of the M10-R and M10-M images."  

Is that the best way to compare the M11 image?

[Jeff S]

David Farkas (Red Dot Forum/Leica Miami) will no doubt conduct another of his B&W high ISO ‘showdowns’, which he has done comparing files from prior M generations.  In the meantime, in his initial 2 hour Camera Talk video discussion of the M11, he noted how and why the M10 Monochrom will remain the low light king for now, as this post demonstrates.

Jeff

[jakontil]

thanks for taking time to do the comparison... i still felt that the colour from the M11 seemed a tad warmer compared to M10R

do you reckon M10R gave a half stop better high iso with less details compared to M11? 

M10M undisputably the king of the night

[zwieback]

did some ISO performance and shadow recovery tests as well and without taking reference to any other camera but only looking at absolute performance my results are not so positive when looking at the pure RAW data. In the menue there is an option "nose reduction" which I dissableded, just for peace of mind in case this anyhow would change the DNG data. Did shots at a sunny blue sky day and already saw quite some noise creaping it at 1600. If you really whant to use your 60 MP, I think 1600 is already pushing it quite a bit.

Also tried to recover underexposed areas of pictures and just adding 1 stop to an 1600 ISO picture turned into something that I would not wnat to show to anybody but this obviously depends on what you are asking and which scale you apply.

I am writing from my laptop but my pics are on an imac, which I would like to keep isolated, so no pics here. Might copy the pics via memory card to show the examples.

Anyway, I already knew that the M11 was not my cup of tee but wanted to confirm my oppinion by tests. ISO performance is not very important to me. I would be happy with a useable 1600, so that's not an argument that would keep me away.

Will stick to the M9/10 in the digital world.

Edited January 16, 2022 by zwieback

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, digitalfx said:

"The M11 images were scaled down to the the same size of the M10-R and M10-M images."  

Is that the best way to compare the M11 image?

You should always compare images at the same resolution. It mimics best real-life use.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, zwieback said:

did some ISO performance and shadow recovery tests as well and without taking reference to any other camera but only looking at absolute performance my results are not so positive when looking at the pure RAW data. In the menue there is an option "nose reduction" which I dissableded, just for peace of mind in case this anyhow would change the DNG data. Did shots at a sunny blue sky day and already saw quite some noise creaping it at 1600. If you really whant to use your 60 MP, I think 1600 is already pushing it quite a bit.

Also tried to recover underexposed areas of pictures and just adding 1 stop to an 1600 ISO picture turned into something that I would not wnat to show to anybody but this obviously depends on what you are asking and which scale you apply.

I am writing from my laptop but my pics are on an imac, which I would like to keep isolated, so no pics here. Might copy the pics via memory card to show the examples.

Anyway, I already knew that the M11 was not my cup of tee but wanted to confirm my oppinion by tests. ISO performance is not very important to me. I would be happy with a useable 1600, so that's not an argument that would keep me away.

Will stick to the M9/10 in the digital world.

Did you pixel peep (100%) or compare at the same resolution?

[zwieback]

100% pixel peeping - that is what I think is necessary if you also really want to use the 60MP. I would never do this for the pictures that I take but here it is about technical performance relevant or not.

I also think that the nose in the pictures posted above is very significant but this is just a screen grab from the forums pic, last post:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

To me this level of noise on such a low resolution is very significant, for somebody else it might be ok because you otherwise do not get the shot at all.