Leica M12 -- your next camera?

[SrMi]

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1 hour ago, Kiwimac said:

The introduction of Ibis would require a much more robust battery. 

EVF and LCD use most of the battery, but IBIS does not so much, AFAIK.

It is hard to quantify how much power IBIS uses as it is always active. X100VI added IBIS and did not lose battery CIPA rating.

[Kiwimac]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

The thing is, M10-R cannot be made better. It is already the last classic digital M, up there in the M hall of fame with M9, the last classic CCD M.
I do have high hopes that the Wetzlar Chocolate Factory will put their thinking cap on and churn out a new crowd pleaser classic with M12.

I had one before the M11. 
 

I have found the 11 series much better as a camera and tool. 

[THEME]

Completely satisfied (knock on wood) so far with the M11. For me next'll be the lucky M13. So far the M11 is still far above my capabilities. With these new-gen sensors, I even start missing the film-like grain at higher ISOs.

Don't want EVF, then I'd buy a Sony or Olympus or any.

The haptics and feel of the M-experience are the reason, why I use this camera. If I want a camera with video and all the modern bells and whistles, I'd look somewhere else.

Want EVF and AF and video? Then Leica would have to launch a separate M-lineup – since they offer all of it already in other packages.

Edited May 17, 2024 by THEME

[S58]

While I'm very happy with the M11P I felt like I was missing something from earlier days... So, I recently did act on that and acquired the next camera. And now to accompany the Leica I have the Hasselblad 907X CFV100C. This... is a seriously nice camera!!!

[Kiwimac]

12 hours ago, S58 said:

While I'm very happy with the M11P I felt like I was missing something from earlier days... So, I recently did act on that and acquired the next camera. And now to accompany the Leica I have the Hasselblad 907X CFV100C. This... is a seriously nice camera!!!

It looks awkward to me although I’m sure the images are impressive. 
 

Also my heart sinks when I see the words “eco leather” - or fake leather as we like to call it. 
 

One of the things that’s always annoyed me about M cameras is the fact that they sell at a price that ought to mean they’re covered in real leather not plastic. 
 

 

[algrove]

OP

To answer your question, first I must know what the camera actually has inside and out.

[BWColor]

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Global shutter..unlikely unless low resolution sensor..but it will happen in time.

USB/Thunderbolt port where I can use it and set the camera on it’s base.

Internal GPS, or at least let me use a VPN while using Leica Fotos to geotag.

Fast wireless transfer of my DNG Files to computer.  I don’t want to remove the battery, and SD card, or attach a cable.  I’m new to the M11, so maybe this can be done now and I just haven’t found this feature.

EVF:  In body, or add-on 9Mpix+. .. Works great on my Sony A7Rv and Loxia lenses.  I only use the Visoflex 2 for my wide open fast lenses… but I do use it.

[S58]

2 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

It looks awkward to me although I’m sure the images are impressive. 

I don't find it awkward as it is a format I was accustomed to shooting with in the 90's, I feel like I'm reunited with an old friend. And actually, it is so much smaller now than the 500CM/503CX I used in the past the handling is vastly improved!!  And yes, the files out of this unit blows everything I've used previously completely away.  Lenses with zero CA, no distortion that I can detect... seriously nice.  I'm heading to Europe (I'm an Aussie) again in several months time and I'll be taking both cameras.  I'm only taking the 75APO on the Leica. 2 for the Blad.  

Leatherette... yea I know.  However, it probably wears better than the real thing.
 

 

 

[BlackCrowFoto]

If I were Homer Simpson, and my long-lost half-brother Herb owned Leica, here's what I'd have him do for the M12/M13 (this from an M11M owner):

• Better, more sensitive focus assist. Fuji GFX50 SII is almost 4 years old and has incredibly accurate focus assist. Fast and dead easy to use.
• A sensor array/image plane that moves back and forth 10mm, à la Contax NX, providing autofocus-on-demand and macro with any M lens.
• A tilting LCD
• Weather-sealed body
• iBIS
• The shutter release plays "La Cucaracha" every time you press it

But I'm still blown away by the M11M.

Edited May 18, 2024 by BlackCrowFoto

[algrove]

Agree, it will take something special to beat the M11, IMHO.

[Peter H]

I much prefer my M11 to the M10. 

Any improvements in the M12 will have to be very substantial to persuade me to buy. 

As ever though, it's not the features as much as the implementation and trade-offs (size, weight, performance, ease of use and of course price) that make the difference.

So far the M11 is my favourite of all the digital Ms.

Edited May 18, 2024 by Peter H

[dkmoore]

3 hours ago, Peter H said:

I much prefer my M11 to the M10. 

Any improvements in the M12 will have to be very substantial to persuade me to buy. 

As ever though, it's not the features as much as the implementation and trade-offs (size, weight, performance, ease of use and of course price) that make the difference.

So far the M11 is my favourite of all the digital Ms.

Completely agree that the M11 variants are the best to date. 
 

We have seen 5-10 (not scientific) incremental upgrades in every model since the M8. Some changes bigger than others but what keeps us engaged is the beauty, quality, and easy to use form factor so I don’t want dramatic changes personally. As is typical with luxury products that are extremely popular. 
 

The only two things i want in a M12 are:

1. IBIS 

2. Worry free rangefinder. Not sure how they do this but it needs to be impenetrable. 
 

BTW, if they ever do add an EVF only model, they need to keep the window anyway. I think a M without the window looks ugly, like the Q. 

Edited May 19, 2024 by dkmoore

[Kiwimac]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:02 AM, S58 said:

 

I had the original GFX100. 
 

Files from that remain the best I’ve ever seen. Astonishing. 
 

It was simply too large and heavy for me to lug about after fracturing one of my thoracic vertebrae. 

Edited May 19, 2024 by Kiwimac

[Peter H]

1 hour ago, Kiwimac said:

I had the original GFX100. 
 

Files from that remain the best I’ve ever seen. Astonishing. 
 

It was simply too large and heavy for me to lug about after fracturing one of my thoracic vertebrae. 

I had the first iteration GFX 100s for a couple of years too, but even without breaking any bones ( I wish you well!)  I found in the end it was just too cumbersome in all respects compared with an M. 

And I much prefer using a rangefinder in most situations. And in fact, whilst the GFX files are wonderful, The M11 files really lose nothing significant to me in comparison, and I find them easier to handle.

I must add though, that Fuji’s aftercare service was infinitely better than my most recent experiences with Leica, albeit more than three years ago now. 
 

And that might be a consideration if the M12 appears with many more technological complications… I mean refinements.  

[Kiwimac]

What I’d like is a properly stealth M11.

 The P is lovely but the script…is aesthetically nice but practically not so much. 
 

The P should be a colour sensor in the Monochrom body I think. Make the 12 that and I might be in!

[Kiwimac]

1 hour ago, Peter H said:

I had the first iteration GFX 100s for a couple of years too, but even without breaking any bones ( I wish you well!)  I found in the end it was just too cumbersome in all respects compared with an M. 

And I much prefer using a rangefinder in most situations. And in fact, whilst the GFX files are wonderful, The M11 files really lose nothing significant to me in comparison, and I find them easier to handle.

I must add though, that Fuji’s aftercare service was infinitely better than my most recent experiences with Leica, albeit more than three years ago now. 
 

And that might be a consideration if the M12 appears with many more technological complications… I mean refinements.  

Very true. 
 

The back is better than it was when I sustained the injury 18 months ago but far from properly healed. I’m not sure it ever will be. 
 

Most irritating is not actually knowing what caused it. It requires a significant mechanism of injury - the specialist said that car crashes, falling off the roof etc are typical causes - and I’ve not done any of those. 
 

Ah well at least an M is a blessing to carry all day instead of some of the stuff I’ve owned. 
 

Maybe the 12 can be all Titanium? 👍🏻

[algrove]

Love my M's, but I still carry too many lenses with me when I should just pick one for the day and be in the moment.

[algrove]

Actually I found the answer. Take 2 bodies , each with a different lens. Is that cheating?

[lct]

2 hours ago, algrove said:

Actually I found the answer. Take 2 bodies , each with a different lens. Is that cheating?

Only if you put a WATE on one body and a MATE on the other 😉

 

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[algrove]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Only if you put a WATE on one body and a MATE on the other 😉

 

I used to own both.