Leica M11 Review by Jono Slack

[jonoslack]

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On 1/16/2022 at 3:44 AM, Dennis said:

By the way, I just realized I’ve read the review but didn’t leave any comment🤦‍♂️
Thank you so much for all the exciting and exhaustive opinions and tips. We all read many reviews out there. Most of the time, it’s a lot of bla bla bla with not a solid body of work. Yours are on another level. To me, your exposures delight the eyes and make me think I’m there, like a wind taking life in the image.

Thank you Dennis

Much appreciated - it makes it all worthwhile if people like it!

All the best

 

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, fil-m said:

Hello Jonathan

Many thanks for the great review and dedication in answering questions! As you have used the M11 with many APO Summicron-M lens, do you have anything to say that could help me in choosing between the 35mm or 50mm APOs? Not to start a focal length debate as this is not the objective and as in my case I use both focal length. But more to see what's your impression in terms of handling and adaptability to the M11 plus difference with the Summicron or Summilux in terms of resolution and quality on the M11 (for example more interesting to have a 50mm standard Summicron and pay for the 35mm APO or vice-versa). Thanks.  

Hi There

Well, I think my feeling is that the closer focusing on the 35 APO is really useful, also, with the high resolution sensor it's easy to crop down to 50mm without losing much (tricky going the other way though! )

All the best

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There

Well, I think my feeling is that the closer focusing on the 35 APO is really useful, also, with the high resolution sensor it's easy to crop down to 50mm without losing much (tricky going the other way though! )

All the best

Hello,

As many others have commented into enjoyed your review, thank you. 
 

during your travels, did you have any rangefinder alignment issues? For example, when you dropped it?

Curious if the rangefinder is identical to that in M10 series or if any changes have been made. I’ve had mostly good luck with the M10 RF but still a source of anxiety for me. 

thank you in advance. 
 

Dustin 

[jonoslack]

6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Does it work for you also for wide angle like 28mm or wider?

Good question 

Truth is that it's not so much of an issue. I tend to use the rangefinder at 28 and wider (especially when stopped down). 

all the best

[jonoslack]

40 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Hello,

As many others have commented into enjoyed your review, thank you. 
 

during your travels, did you have any rangefinder alignment issues? For example, when you dropped it?

Curious if the rangefinder is identical to that in M10 series or if any changes have been made. I’ve had mostly good luck with the M10 RF but still a source of anxiety for me. 

thank you in advance. 
 

Dustin 

Hi Dustin

Glad you enjoyed it.

I was talking about the rangefinder today - the answer is no troubles - it seems very accurate and very good - and it didn't go out when I dropped it either. I think that Leica continuously make small improvements to the rangefinder mechanism, this seems fine, whether it's better or not is something different!

best

[vedivv]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:15 AM, jonoslack said:

Hi There

Well, I think there are several reasons

1. I mostly shoot wide open, and my tripod is always in the barn!

2. I'm lazy and careless

3. yes - I was shooting with the rangefinder most of the time rather than EVF

4. When I pick images for articles I pick the ones I like and don't check too hard at 100%

5. I'm lazy and careless

So - on to your question

I've felt that the rangefinder is really good and really accurate - it feels to me to be slightly better than my M10 and M10-R, 

I hope that helps - all errors are down to the photographer!

best

Jono

Hi Jono,

I am impressed with your self-deprecation, very British and something we should learn here in the US. 

I like your point number 4, and that should always be the case for photographers.  You picked great pictures! 

Having said that, I think 60MP is really pushing the RF capability.  It is very psychological.  The truth is, even "small" camera output should be enough for most uses.  Knowing that 61MP is there, but not using it just feels a little something missing.  I can use Sony A7RIV to do most things that M11 does, but the special experience of using RF and pleasure of handling a refined machine should never be overlooked.  

Best,

Lu

 

[dkmoore]

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1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

Hi Dustin

Glad you enjoyed it.

I was talking about the rangefinder today - the answer is no troubles - it seems very accurate and very good - and it didn't go out when I dropped it either. I think that Leica continuously make small improvements to the rangefinder mechanism, this seems fine, whether it's better or not is something different!

best

Thank you for getting back to me and glad to hear it’s held up well. RF / lens alignment is really the only weakness to me over the years. It keeps getting more and more reliable. 

[adli]

16 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi Dustin

Glad you enjoyed it.

I was talking about the rangefinder today - the answer is no troubles - it seems very accurate and very good - and it didn't go out when I dropped it either. I think that Leica continuously make small improvements to the rangefinder mechanism, this seems fine, whether it's better or not is something different!

best

 

I found the rangefinder on the M8/M9/M240 horrible, accuracy all over the place, especially with my M9. Impossible to have a consistent calibration. With the improvement on the M10, it was dead solid again. I would assume the M11 rangefinder will behave the same. 

[jonoslack]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:40 PM, vedivv said:

Hi Jono,

I am impressed with your self-deprecation, very British and something we should learn here in the US. 

I like your point number 4, and that should always be the case for photographers.  You picked great pictures! 

Having said that, I think 60MP is really pushing the RF capability.  It is very psychological.  The truth is, even "small" camera output should be enough for most uses.  Knowing that 61MP is there, but not using it just feels a little something missing.  I can use Sony A7RIV to do most things that M11 does, but the special experience of using RF and pleasure of handling a refined machine should never be overlooked.  

Best,

Lu

 

Hi There Lu

You shouldn't confuse self-deprecation with modesty! It might be very British, but I'm not sure you should learn it!

I was trying to get across a point - and it's true that I'm lazy - but I wouldn't rather be more conscientious in this situation 😂

I have a little mantra: " If a picture is interesting then nobody cares whether it's technically good, and if it isn't interesting then nobody cares at all" 

As for 60mp and the rangefinder capability, I've not found it to be a problem (sure you miss a few if you shoot wide open - but then it was always thus!).

I don't think you have anything to lose - if it's blurry at 100% just scale it down a bit! - and if you get it right then it's BIG.

All the best

[Daedalus2000]

9 hours ago, adli said:

 

I found the rangefinder on the M8/M9/M240 horrible, accuracy all over the place, especially with my M9. Impossible to have a consistent calibration. With the improvement on the M10, it was dead solid again. I would assume the M11 rangefinder will behave the same. 

If that helps, I was very impressed with the RF accuracy of the M11 for all my lenses.

[Lelmer]

Hi Jono,

What about dust on the sensor? have you noticed a difference with you M10, assuming a similar usage?

Sorry if the question has already been asked.

Thanks

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, Lelmer said:

Hi Jono,

What about dust on the sensor? have you noticed a difference with you M10, assuming a similar usage?

Sorry if the question has already been asked.

Thanks

Hi There

Good question - I cleaned the sensor for the first time a week or two back - it needed it, but it wasn't that bad

But is cleaning a sensor a problem?

all the nest

 

[Lelmer]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There

Good question - I cleaned the sensor for the first time a week or two back - it needed it, but it wasn't that bad

But is cleaning a sensor a problem?

all the nest

 

Thank you...so, no real difference

Cleaning the sensor is not a problem, I just don't like to do it 😉

[tashley]

15 hours ago, adli said:

 

I found the rangefinder on the M8/M9/M240 horrible, accuracy all over the place, especially with my M9. Impossible to have a consistent calibration. With the improvement on the M10, it was dead solid again. I would assume the M11 rangefinder will behave the same. 

I share your pain, though for me the 240 was good, the 10 almost perfect and the 11 seems good so far. Jono has observed, and I thoroughly concur, that historically part of the problem was that people would send their lenses and cameras in together to get calibrated to each other, and that this made no long term sense because either item could end up not playing well with others it might encounter in later life. My M11 so far, not yet throughly tested but by eye in an informal way, seems to work well with my existing lenses with none of those ‘here we go again’ moments so familiar from the M8/9 days…

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, tashley said:

people would send their lenses and cameras in together to get calibrated to each other, and that this made no long term sense because either item could end up not playing well with others it might encounter in later life. 

Leica Service actually encourages users to send in camera and lens(es) to avoid guesswork and to minimize back and forth shipping.  Their practice, unless specifically requested otherwise, is to calibrate each component to an established standard, not to each other.  Not only have build tolerances improved over time for the M bodies, but so has the measuring equipment used.  Sherry Krauter, one of the respected third party repair techs, explained that she won’t work on digital Ms because the high end calibration gear is cost prohibitive.

Jeff

[tashley]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Leica Service actually encourages users to send in camera and lens(es) to avoid guesswork and to minimize back and forth shipping.  Their practice, unless specifically requested otherwise, is to calibrate each component to an established standard, not to each other.  Not only have build tolerances improved over time for the M bodies, but so has the measuring equipment used.  Sherry Krauter, one of the respected third party repair techs, explained that she won’t work on digital Ms because the high end calibration gear is cost prohibitive.

Jeff

It’s my understanding - quite possibly incorrect but I have my reasons for believing it - that what you say is true as per now, but that historically (think M8 through 240) it was not - and that at that time it was general practice to calibrate the items to each other rather than as per today, which is as you say, to a universal standard within the Venn-diagrammatical overlaps of which they would meet.

[Stevejack]

7 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There Lu

You shouldn't confuse self-deprecation with modesty! It might be very British, but I'm not sure you should learn it!

I was trying to get across a point - and it's true that I'm lazy - but I wouldn't rather be more conscientious in this situation 😂

I have a little mantra: " If a picture is interesting then nobody cares whether it's technically good, and if it isn't interesting then nobody cares at all" 

As for 60mp and the rangefinder capability, I've not found it to be a problem (sure you miss a few if you shoot wide open - but then it was always thus!).

I don't think you have anything to lose - if it's blurry at 100% just scale it down a bit! - and if you get it right then it's BIG.

All the best

100% this. @vedivv If you miss focus, you miss focus no matter what the resolution. You have a better chance of rescuing a slightly OOF shot by reducing that 60mp file down to 24mp, or even better, run that 60mp image through Topaz sharpening and apply that sharpening to only the OOF area.

I often shoot birds at 400mm f/2.8. Now THAT's a shallow depth of field and occasionally there is a slight miss (or you catch focus on the tip of a wing rather than the eye) but on a good shot it usually won't matter. For birds I'm using a 50mp camera and sometimes cropping heavily so it's punishingly obvious if you miss focus, but I've had great success rescuing a slight miss with Topaz software and my success using this software improved when I went from 24mp to 50mp. More information in the image will always give the software processing it the best chance at giving a great result, this applies to sharpening + noise reduction equally. 

I don't think I've ever bothered rescuing a missed focus shot with my digital Leicas  (both 40mp) because that's not the look I'm going for there - but the same principle applies. If you start with more information in your digital file, the software processing it will give you better results 👍

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, tashley said:

It’s my understanding - quite possibly incorrect but I have my reasons for believing it - that what you say is true as per now, but that historically (think M8 through 240) it was not - and that at that time it was general practice to calibrate the items to each other rather than as per today, which is as you say, to a universal standard within the Venn-diagrammatical overlaps of which they would meet.

I was told about the mail-in preferences, I think during M8.2 days, but definitely before the M10.  But it’s certainly possible that the actual measurement procedures changed over time, especially given concerns about US service department practices, along with the narrowing of build tolerances and better measurement gear/techniques.  I’ll defer to others who likely know more than what I’ve heard.

Jeff

[rscheffler]

On 1/15/2022 at 9:26 PM, digitalfx said:

The M is not weather sealed...lenses would always be a weak point.

RE: the battery, it has a gasket around it to seal the large hole with access to media.

Depending on how one reads this, it could be interpreted as the lenses being unsuitable for use in inclement weather. To clarify Leica's position on M lens "weather sealing" there was a comment made by Leica's Jesko von Oeynhausen in this Photokina 2012 interview by Dave Farkas about the M240. 

Dave Farkas: "What are the details on weather sealing? Is the lens mount sealed in any way?"

Jesko von Oeynhausen: "The lens mount is not sealed. Usually lenses would have a gasket on mount, but no M lenses have this. The lenses themselves are built to such tight tolerances and have oil between the parts, which works to create a kind of sealing. The problem was never with the lenses. It has always been with bodies."

FWIW the M240 introduced improved weather sealing over the M9, which one expects carried forward to the M10 and now M11. I have not read otherwise.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[vedivv]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:34 PM, Stevejack said:

100% this. @vedivv If you miss focus, you miss focus no matter what the resolution. You have a better chance of rescuing a slightly OOF shot by reducing that 60mp file down to 24mp, or even better, run that 60mp image through Topaz sharpening and apply that sharpening to only the OOF area.

I often shoot birds at 400mm f/2.8. Now THAT's a shallow depth of field and occasionally there is a slight miss (or you catch focus on the tip of a wing rather than the eye) but on a good shot it usually won't matter. For birds I'm using a 50mp camera and sometimes cropping heavily so it's punishingly obvious if you miss focus, but I've had great success rescuing a slight miss with Topaz software and my success using this software improved when I went from 24mp to 50mp. More information in the image will always give the software processing it the best chance at giving a great result, this applies to sharpening + noise reduction equally. 

I don't think I've ever bothered rescuing a missed focus shot with my digital Leicas  (both 40mp) because that's not the look I'm going for there - but the same principle applies. If you start with more information in your digital file, the software processing it will give you better results 👍

Both you and Jono offered great perspective on focusing accuracy, and I totally agree with you sentiment here.  Leica M cameras and lens somehow create this emotional connection with the shooter, which to me is an important part of creative process.   M11 offers many great features in addition to the high MP count.  Having the zen to not being bothered by slight missed focus or other technical imperfections is an important skill.  Jono's sample photos were a great example: at screen viewing size, they look great and slight missed focus is non issue.  

At the same time, Leica cameras, or any other cameras, are still tools and we need to know their limitations.  The knowledge of focusing inaccuracy means we know when to switch to EVF/screen when critical focus is required.  If the M11's downsampling algorithm works well, perhaps shooting smaller files makes more sense for most uses.