Leica M11 Review by Jono Slack

[jonoslack]

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On 1/14/2022 at 2:08 PM, Stevejack said:

I mentioned this in another thread, but since you have Leica’s ear… 

I would love to suggest that they add a future update where the old manual shutter mode can used with no metering whatsoever.
 

They can call it ‘vintage Leica mode’ and it would operate just like a meter-less M3 or M-A. We would get the old ‘snick’ shutter back (open/close) and it would be a quirky little throwback to the past. Hardcore mode for the true photographer 😉

Hi There

Good thinking - I've suggested it (no idea if it will happen but certain it won't be for a while!)

best

Jono

[jonoslack]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:38 PM, Chips said:

Thanks for the comprehensive review. I feel more confident understanding the M11 after your seven months trial with the M11. 

My main concern is whether the signature Leica "Look" in the image has been maintained. Your images have a range: bright, moody, B&W, crisp and slightly soft focus. The images seem to appear a little different than the classic Leica image. But it just may be my eye and natural skepticism with something new.  Did you notice any departure or change in terms of Leica Image? I realize that 60MP is a big jump but some medium formats produce really excellent quality. What do you think?

CHIPS

Hi There CHIPS

I was obviously trying to have a range if images, i think it's rather difficult to describe 'the signature Leica Look' and perhaps difficult to see it! but I think the images feel very "leica" myself. 

Best

Jono

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[jonoslack]

On 1/14/2022 at 4:04 PM, Eclectic Man said:

Just wondering whether there is a facility for copying data from the internal 64GB store onto an SD card.  The split store capability of sending DNG to the internal store and JPG to the SD card is presumably to ensure best possibly write speed, but then you might want to save the DNG files somewhere else without having to connect a computer.  

Alternatively can the M11 drive a separate hard drive directly (that is without the use of an intermediate, powered computer)?

Fairly obscure questions, but just thought I'd ask.

I don't think that the M11 can drive a separate hard drive (and certainly there is no option for copying to the USB-C port. 

you can copy from INTernal to SD card - quick and easy, but currently the images do not show up as on the SD card until you remove it and put ti back in the camera. Which can be a bit scary!

best

Jono

[jonoslack]

13 hours ago, vedivv said:

Hi Jono, could you comment on the RF focus accuracy? 

Zooming in  your shots (great pics), I noticed that many seemed to be slightly out of focus.  I also looked at the photos Chris took at DPReview, which looked much sharper and in focus.  I am guessing the difference has to do with the fact you focused with optical finder while Chris focused on the LCD. 
 

Hi There

Well, I think there are several reasons

1. I mostly shoot wide open, and my tripod is always in the barn!

2. I'm lazy and careless

3. yes - I was shooting with the rangefinder most of the time rather than EVF

4. When I pick images for articles I pick the ones I like and don't check too hard at 100%

5. I'm lazy and careless

So - on to your question

I've felt that the rangefinder is really good and really accurate - it feels to me to be slightly better than my M10 and M10-R, 

I hope that helps - all errors are down to the photographer!

best

Jono

[jonoslack]

13 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

It's more infatuation at the moment. True love takes some time; building a relationship through the highs and lows of the day to day grind. 😉

I'm sure there's going to be a learning curve, but if I do manage anything worthwhile in the next few days, I'll put them up.  The few BS shots I've done with the '69 lux so far have me really intrigued. I was never quite as fond of my earlier lenses on the 10-R as I was on the previous two cameras. I have to do some testing, but I've never seen this lens look this good, and in the corners as well. First impression is that indeed vignetting does seem to be reduced significantly. And, as predicted by those in the know, it stands up to 60Mpx. Its hard to convey, but this was shot 1/40" with the 'lux at f2.8. Focus point was on the lens release. No motion blur, sharp as a tack at the point of focus if you were to see the original... its sad that the on page stuff fails to convey this, but what can you do. Clicking through should hopefully give a better impression. I expect there'll be plenty of APO shots to pour over, so perhaps I'll spend more time with the earlier glass to back fill the samples provided by others as I'm sure that will be a topic of interest for some. 

 

Should mention that the shot was imported into LR and screen shot as is, no adjustments. 

Hi There

It sounds like you're having fun!  I quite agree about older lenses - until quite recently I've only really owned newer lenses, but more recently I've had access to a few, and I've found they are lovely on the M11. I don't think it's because of the better vignetting (I don't mind vignetting), but I think Leica have done a cracking job with this sensor in general.

I'm pleased you're pleased - I understand that my article was only confirmational, but it's still nice when people are pleased! 

[Tailwagger]

1 minute ago, jonoslack said:

I've felt that the rangefinder is really good and really accurate - it feels to me to be slightly better than my M10 and M10-R, 

I haven't compared yet, but,  1) I know that everything is supposed to be the same and 2) its been a while since I've shot with a 35mm, but I had the impression that 35mm frames take up a larger portion of the VF.  Felt almost like a 28mm where I had to move my position around to be able to see the lines. 

One tip for EVF users that I discovered last night. The EVF doesn't seem to have a marked 0 position which I found made it confusing to adjust. However it turns out getting it set is very easy if you enable all the camera info and then adjust the diopter until the text is at its sharpest. 

[jonoslack]

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7 hours ago, rfunnell said:

Nicely done as usual Jono and here I was thinking I didn't need one. 

Have been enjoying my experience with the Sl2-S and almost all the Leica lenses created for it over the past 3 years.

I wouldn't mind an M11 and just one lens when I feel like travelling light not that there has been much travelling lately but I'm always hopeful.

You have taken some great images there   ,     kind regards  Ross

Hi There Ross

It's interesting that looking at the images most of them were shot at 35mm (my old favourites were 50 & 75). I think that the 'croppability' of the new big sensor is a real bonus - especially for travel. Recently I've been carrying a WATE and a 90 elmarit M in the bag with me, with the 35 APO on the camera - lightweight and very flexible outfit.

. . . best

Jono

[jonoslack]

1 minute ago, Tailwagger said:

 

One tip for EVF users that I discovered last night. The EVF doesn't seem to have a marked 0 position which I found made it confusing to adjust. However it turns out getting it set is very easy if you enable all the camera info and then adjust the diopter until the text is at its sharpest. 

Brilliant - never thought of that!

[Dsauro]

Jono

I have a suggestion for a 3 channel histogram.

You and Sean Reid should tag team Stephan over a few pints and drink him into submission until he relents and agrees to a 3 channel histogram.  And while you are at it, ask him for a raw histogram for the M10M

send me the bill !!

Edited January 15, 2022 by Dsauro

[Tailwagger]

3 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There

It sounds like you're having fun!  I quite agree about older lenses - until quite recently I've only really owned newer lenses, but more recently I've had access to a few, and I've found they are lovely on the M11. I don't think it's because of the better vignetting (I don't mind vignetting), but I think Leica have done a cracking job with this sensor in general.

I'm pleased you're pleased - I understand that my article was only confirmational, but it's still nice when people are pleased! 

More affirmational this time around. 😃  There was so much unexpected preliminary data available and as I have a lot of faith that Leica isn't going to release a crap M, this time around I was able to read your excellent review with a warm feeling in my chest, rather than the more typical cold sweat in my palms of previous generations. Was a more enjoyable a read than ever!  The most import bit is you bit on one. Always tells me all I need to know. 

[jslabovitz]

11 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

One tip for EVF users that I discovered last night. The EVF doesn't seem to have a marked 0 position which I found made it confusing to adjust. However it turns out getting it set is very easy if you enable all the camera info and then adjust the diopter until the text is at its sharpest. 

The diopter on my Visoflex 020 often bumps off its setting, seemingly just from normal handling of the camera. (I leave the EVF on all the time.) Luckily I don't need any adjustment, so I can easily check to see if the dial is at zero. Lately I've started putting a tiny piece of black gaffer tape on the dial & EVF body to keep it locked down.

If you've had experience with the old EVF, do you think the diopter on the new one is as easily bumped? Is the dial perhaps recessed further than the old one?

[jonoslack]

6 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

More affirmational this time around. 😃  There was so much unexpected preliminary data available and as I have a lot of faith that Leica isn't going to release a crap M, this time around I was able to read your excellent review with a warm feeling in my chest, rather than the more typical cold sweat in my palms of previous generations. Was a more enjoyable a read than ever!  The most import bit is you bit on one. Always tells me all I need to know. 

Ah! I haven't 'bit' yet - I still have Leica's test camera hostage, but I certainly will . . . I see to have bought a very clean looking (but rather expensive) unmodified dual range summicron this morning. . . . . . I'm rather excited, I think it should be fun on the M11

[derleicaman]

38 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

I haven't compared yet, but,  1) I know that everything is supposed to be the same and 2) its been a while since I've shot with a 35mm, but I had the impression that 35mm frames take up a larger portion of the VF.  Felt almost like a 28mm where I had to move my position around to be able to see the lines. 

One tip for EVF users that I discovered last night. The EVF doesn't seem to have a marked 0 position which I found made it confusing to adjust. However it turns out getting it set is very easy if you enable all the camera info and then adjust the diopter until the text is at its sharpest. 

Excellent suggestion on a reliable way to adjust the diopter. I might make another suggestion to do something similar to what I did on my Viso 020 diopter. After getting the sharpest image possible, I marked that position on the dial with a reference mark. I did this with some Testor's Red Enamel. I used a toothpick that I cut the tip off of to make the dot the size I wanted. Dip the tip of the toothpick in the paint in the cap, and carefully put a dot on the Viso body, and right next to it, a dot on the diopter dial. That way, even if the diopter dial gets knocked out of position you can quickly re-set it to your best setting. I put a second dot on the diopter wheel for when I use the Viso without my glasses. So I have two settings, with and without glasses. No need to hunt for your best diopter setting if it gets knocked out of position. Works very well and cost next to nothing to do. If you need to change your marked setting later, simply remove the dot on the wheel with your fingernail, find the new best setting for you, and put a new dot on.

[benbux]

@jonoslack thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed review - you’re always my first port of call for new Leica releases and you did not disappoint!

There was just one area where I still have questions and this is simply about the colours.

After shooting for years with an M10 that I only realised was giving me very orangey colour pictures once I switched to an M10-P - and shooting primarily for bnw as a result of it - I looked very carefully at the colours on the M10-R when I tried it out and the images felt great to me; lovely, almost muted tones and an organic feel to them. I didn’t buy one last year as I’d already spent on the M10M and I knew the M11 was coming. Now I’m torn… 

Your one liner on this has me intrigued: “the excellent colour feels more 'realistic' (although perhaps not so charming)”.

I’m going to invest in one or the other of these cameras and would be very keen to hear your thoughts on the difference in colours and image quality between them? 

[jaapv]

The colours that a camera produces are mostly determined by the user - not by the camera. Of course there are differences caused by the Bayer filter, but those are small and can usually be overcome by profiling the camera in your postprocessing software. With Leica you can assume that it is not too hard to match your camera to your taste. If you got orangey colours out of your M10 you should have had a look at the settings of your raw converter.

[Jeff S]

Or, if one is going to spend 9 grand on a camera, maybe consider spending an extra $100 on a ColorChecker Passport, and 15 minutes creating your own color profile(s).

Jeff

[jonoslack]

49 minutes ago, benbux said:

@jonoslack thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed review - you’re always my first port of call for new Leica releases and you did not disappoint!

There was just one area where I still have questions and this is simply about the colours.

After shooting for years with an M10 that I only realised was giving me very orangey colour pictures once I switched to an M10-P - and shooting primarily for bnw as a result of it - I looked very carefully at the colours on the M10-R when I tried it out and the images felt great to me; lovely, almost muted tones and an organic feel to them. I didn’t buy one last year as I’d already spent on the M10M and I knew the M11 was coming. Now I’m torn… 

Your one liner on this has me intrigued: “the excellent colour feels more 'realistic' (although perhaps not so charming)”.

I’m going to invest in one or the other of these cameras and would be very keen to hear your thoughts on the difference in colours and image quality between them? 

Jaap and Jeff S have it . . . . . . . . but personally, I feel that different situations require different treatment, but I also feel that the real problem is that so many people who are absolutely fastidious about manually getting the exposure they want . . . . . and then they use Auto White Balance. 

In daylight I shoot Sunny white balance (no matter if it's cloudy and grey or sunny). That means that one is treating the camera like a 'film stock' and getting a consistent colour across all situations - shoot DNG and you can always change it in post processing if it isn't what you want. It's easy to make batch changes  . . . but I find a gallery of photos with AWB really hard to assess and more difficult to deal with. I don't create my own colour profiles because I don't think I'm better at colour management than Leica or Adobe (and also because I'm careless and lazy!)

Back to your question - I don't think the colour from the M11 is significantly different from that of the M10-R, and I like it - skin tones are, I think, better with the M11.

All the best

 

[Jeff S]

And when Jono makes a small tweak to contrast/clarity, as he notes, that is also affecting color rendering (especially saturation), as these variables are related. Adjusting to taste can be quick and easy. Profiles only create a starting point.

Jeff

[jonoslack]

15 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

And when Jono makes a small tweak to contrast/clarity, as he notes, that is also affecting color rendering (especially saturation), as these variables are related. Adjusting to taste can be quick and easy. Profiles only create a starting point.

Jeff

Hi Jeff

Of course you're right - especially saturation - I spent years taking up many hours profiling and reprofiling monitors and using a colour checker . . . . and then one day I had an epiphany and gave it all up. Daylight White Balance Rules (except in artificial light, where I use Auto and mess about with colour images on a photo by photo basis). I've saved myself a huge amount of time and effort . . . . . whether I've spoiled the photos is a moot point!

Best

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[elmars]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

n daylight I shoot Sunny white balance (no matter if it's cloudy and grey or sunny). That means that one is treating the camera like a 'film stock' and getting a consistent colour across all situations

You are totally right with this. You can rely on Autoexposure but not on AWB. Only with fixed white balance You can judge and remember the light situation. AWB equals all.

Edited January 15, 2022 by elmars