TTArtisan 28mm f5.6

[Dilo87]

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Am 1.12.2021 um 02:50 schrieb steve 1959:

I believe TT artisans have raised the quality bar compared to 7 artisans

 

Both have very good lenses.

7A e.g. the 28mm 1.4 and 35mm 1.4 IF

TT e.g. the 50mm 1.4

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Gobert:

TT Artisan. They are good enough to make own designed lenses in stead of copies of old designs. I will never buy those, regardless how cheap they are.

The Optical Formular is, to my understanding, not a copy of the Summaron and why souldn't they design the lensbody in a way that it appeals to people? As long as they don't use protected designs i see no problem.

[Simone_DF]

31 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I will compare the Leica and the TTArtisan 28 as soon as the latter arrives to this neck of the woods.

Please do! I'd love to see a side by side comparison

[Adam Bonn]

FWIW I think all these ‘cheaper than the Leica one’ off brand lenses (be that really cheap 7A or even hardly inexpensive just loads cheaper than the Leica option from Zeiss or CV) shouldn’t really be judged against the Leica equivalent…

Obviously it’s appealing to compare (say) the TT 50/0.95 or 1.4 to the noct/Summilux 50s, the TT 28/5.6 to the Leica one, but how is that really that helpful?

’you’ know to begin with that the comparison with almost certainly end with the conclusion that the Leica is better (either IQ, or size or tactile feedback or all three!) and that the price difference is larger than the quality difference…

So we just have to look at our personal usage cases and decide if it’s worth buying as a tool we’ll make good use of.

Every time someone makes a lens that resembles a Leica product in description the immediate response seems to be, wow I wonder if it’s the same quality as the Leica one?

The answer I think is no… 😏

In my head it’s not dissimilar to deciding between (say) a summarit 35 and FLE 35. The second option costs more and has better IQ, but the first option might be perfectly good enough for what you might want to use it for and/or your budget.

Mores lenses = more choices. This is a good thing.

(I have a 7A 50/1.1. I’ve some photos that I really like taken by it, but lord it’s a shit lens in many ways, and I think mine might be de-centred) 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

The official importer for EU is Jo Geier of MINT & RARE in Vienna. The lens is here.

Thanks Al.....ordered!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

FWIW I think all these ‘cheaper than the Leica one’ off brand lenses (be that really cheap 7A or even hardly inexpensive just loads cheaper than the Leica option from Zeiss or CV) shouldn’t really be judged against the Leica equivalent…

Obviously it’s appealing to compare (say) the TT 50/0.95 or 1.4 to the noct/Summilux 50s, the TT 28/5.6 to the Leica one, but how is that really that helpful?

 

No, not helpful at all........as my old friend Ronnie Lane used to say "it's the difference between scratching your arse or tearing it to pieces"....What's the point?

 

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

’you’ know to begin with that the comparison with almost certainly end with the conclusion that the Leica is better (either IQ, or size or tactile feedback or all three!) and that the price difference is larger than the quality difference…

So we just have to look at our personal usage cases and decide if it’s worth buying as a tool we’ll make good use of.

Exactly......

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

Every time someone makes a lens that resembles a Leica product in description the immediate response seems to be, wow I wonder if it’s the same quality as the Leica one?

The answer I think is no… 😏

In my head it’s not dissimilar to deciding between (say) a summarit 35 and FLE 35. The second option costs more and has better IQ, but the first option might be perfectly good enough for what you might want to use it for and/or your budget.

Mores lenses = more choices. This is a good thing.

Right.......

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

(I have a 7A 50/1.1. I’ve some photos that I really like taken by it, but lord it’s a shit lens in many ways, and I think mine might be de-centred) 

I have the Voitglander f1.1 50mm.........I also used to have a Noct' f1 too but sold it, ( at a nice profit ), because I really didn't use it. Comparing the shots taken with the Noct' and the shots with the VC, there's no real difference for me that matters. Like with the Noct' I still don't use the VC much but the financial difference makes it a lens that's ok to hang on to despite the few times it goes out on the M.

[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, petermullett said:

I have the Voitglander f1.1 50mm.........I also used to have a Noct' f1 too but sold it, ( at a nice profit ), because I really didn't use it. Comparing the shots taken with the Noct' and the shots with the VC, there's no real difference for me that matters. Like with the Noct' I still don't use the VC much but the financial difference makes it a lens that's ok to hang on to despite the few times it goes out on the M.

After the 7A i ended up getting a 50 lux asph!

I had 35 cron GAS for a while, but flipping the 35 rit and adding a big chunk of money didn’t appeal, so instead I bought the CV35/1.7 and other than the stupid shape, I’ve been very happy with it

Edited December 2, 2021 by Adam Bonn

[Guest]

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I think comparison reviews are useful,very helpful and with some voigtlander lenses and zeiss lens the conclusion is that they are technically better than the leica equivalent and much cheaper.

Maybe the TT artisans lenses are getting near to voigtlander/leica level  now? 

The acid test is to take the price out of it all together and see which lens performs best technically  and "some" third party lenses are clearly better than the leica counterparts in that respect.

With the 28mm summaron they only need to produce an average lens that is soft in the corners and vignettes heavily so the bar is low in that respect.

Regarding rendering/character that is just subjective anyway .

Footnote ,i used to own the summaron but struggled with the ergonomics and slow maximum aperture but it does render images nicely in my view.

[ianman]

14 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Regarding rendering/character that is just subjective anyway .

It’s not the rendering that’s subjective, it’s our individual tastes and perceptions that are. Much like you may find the max aperture too slow for your style and others don’t. It’s just down to what we need to get what we want. I think it’s earlier in this thread that I wrote that the price factor is irrelevant for me. If I couldn’t afford a Summaron, I wouldn’t buy this new lens just because it looks like it on the outside. The rendering/character is paramount in my view.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

It’s not the rendering that’s subjective, it’s our individual tastes and perceptions that are. Much like you may find the max aperture too slow for your style and others don’t. It’s just down to what we need to get what we want. I think it’s earlier in this thread that I wrote that the price factor is irrelevant for me. If I couldn’t afford a Summaron, I wouldn’t buy this new lens just because it looks like it on the outside. The rendering/character is paramount in my view.

I agree that the rendering/character is all important but its more difficult to judge from reviews etc than pure technical performance in my opinion.

Also finding a nice lens that renders how you would like has nothing to do with who manufactures it i believe.

[ianman]

45 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Also finding a nice lens that renders how you would like has nothing to do with who manufactures it i believe.

Absolutely!

[jrp]

18 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

I think comparison reviews are useful,very helpful and with some voigtlander lenses and zeiss lens the conclusion is that they are technically better than the leica equivalent and much cheaper.

The trouble is that sticker price is not the only price that you should be considering unless you are cash strapped.  What matters is the cost of ownership.  If you keep the lens for 5-10 years, say, what is the depreciation; what could you sell it for?

In my case, I got a good few of my Leica lenses a decade ago, and they would now be so expensive to buy new, I that I think twice before taking them out.

If I got a cheap and cheerful Chinese knock off I would be less protective and get less satisfaction from taking pictures, but possibly slightly worse off in net wealth.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jrp said:

The trouble is that sticker price is not the only price that you should be considering unless you are cash strapped.  What matters is the cost of ownership.  If you keep the lens for 5-10 years, say, what is the depreciation; what could you sell it for?

In my case, I got a good few of my Leica lenses a decade ago, and they would now be so expensive to buy new, I that I think twice before taking them out.

If I got a cheap and cheerful Chinese knock off I would be less protective and get less satisfaction from taking pictures, but possibly slightly worse off in net wealth.

 

I take your point on diminishing value of third party lenses but why would you get less satisfaction with say a TT artisans lens? they seem very well built and metal like leica lenses.

I don't take pictures with my voigtlander 40mm f1.4 nokton and feel any less satisfaction than with my silver 50mm summicrom version 5.

[jrp]

Take your point, but I find that things like M lens recognition by M bodies, as well as colour and rendition, help over time.

[ianman]

Except for collectors, I don’t get the whole monetary value, diminishing or otherwise of photographic tools. Isn’t the value and satisfaction delivered by the results rather than ownership or potential financial gain, whether the photographer is a professional or not?

[cp995]

Am 30.11.2021 um 09:13 schrieb Simone_DF:

The optical design is different compared to the Summaron. 

By looking at the optical design and the MFT charts, I thnk the TTArtisan has a more modern rendering and it's definitely sharper in the corners, at least on paper. We'll see once lens samples and reviews start popping up. I'm considering getting one!

And that are the best news!
We don't need another replica, but a great modern lens in wonderful housing is worth a buy.
Especially for the price and build qualilty!

Chapeau, TTartisan !!!

[Guest]

Of interest to me at least is that if tt artisans are going for maximum performance instead of the "vintage look" is just how much performance they can get out of such a tiny lens.

Made easier of course by the slow speed but still of interest.

[ianman]

3 hours ago, cp995 said:

We don't need another replica, but a great modern lens in wonderful housing is worth a buy.

Very true. I'm baffled as to why they feel the need to so blatantly rip off the outer design. This is just going to cause irrelevant debate and comparisons between two radically different optical designs.

[chasdfg]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

Very true. I'm baffled as to why they feel the need to so blatantly rip off the outer design. This is just going to cause irrelevant debate and comparisons between two radically different optical designs.

Not that I agree with it but them doing so has created a lot of chatter on the web and more publicity for them

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

Very true. I'm baffled as to why they feel the need to so blatantly rip off the outer design. This is just going to cause irrelevant debate and comparisons between two radically different optical designs.

Almost as if they are laughing at leica or maybe paying a tribute/homage to leica?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pippy]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

...I'm baffled as to why they feel the need to so blatantly rip off the outer design...

Well, there are probably a great many reasons for doing so; familiarity of shape and the mental 'reassurance' which that suggests being one.

But the outward basic form of the Summaron has been (roughly) copied to a certain extent by pretty much all of the main players for sixty years or more. Here is an early Nikon LTM 28mm as an example. It is, I grant, a trifle larger than both the original and the TT 'modernisation / replication' but, in its defence, it is one-and-a-half-stops faster to allow for that extra speed;

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I would have liked TT to have 'distanced' their design slightly more but, in all honesty, personally I don't give a hoot as to the external shape as long as it is ergonomically and optically fine. I accept that the TT release is particularly similar in most ways to the original Summaron but the game of "Who Copied Whom?" can be (IMO) a very long-winded waste of time.

Philip.