CL + TL 18mm - opinions?

[JoshuaR]

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Apologies if this has been addressed many times before.

I'm thinking of getting a digital CL, along with the 18mm Elmarit TL, to serve as a small-ish pocket camera. It would be replacing an X100V and GR III, which are my current small "commuting" cameras. The idea is that I'd have a slim CL to complement my larger Q2.

I'm a hobby photographer who mainly documents my family life and my travels as a journalist, and I tend to prefer simple, one-lens setups. I love the Q2—it's just perfect for me. But I've never fully bonded with the X100V and GR III, even though I've used cameras in both those series for many, many years. The X100's 35mm focal length isn't ideal for me—I prefer a wider view—and I wish the GR had a viewfinder. It seems like the CL might give me the best of both worlds: 28mm FOV, good EVF, small and light. I also really like Leica's UI, and the look of the images. Finally, I could see a future in which I pick up a telephoto zoom for my kids' soccer games, or try shooting Voigtlander lenses on the CL for fun.

For now, though, my main lens on the CL would be the pancake 18mm. That's what I'd be using 90% of the time. What's the consensus on that lens these days? I notice that there's a ton of enthusiasm for the TL 23mm, but I'm only interested in the CL because of its compact form factor, and so wouldn't use the 23mm. I see almost no one gushing over the 18mm pancake. Is it a poor performer? Or is it just not-often-discussed? Perhaps it got overshadowed by the Q's Summilux. I see a lot of people saying that they've sold their copies. What's your experience?

In the interests of full disclosure, I should say that I'm a bit all over the place in my quest to replace the X100V and GR III with a single, fairly compact camera that I'll love as much as the Q2. I've also been thinking about buying an Olympus XA2, for instance. Or even an M6—which seems like it'd be pretty small, with the right lens, and is just within my price range. Those options are appealingly different from the Q2. My main goal is just to have a camera, with a viewfinder, that I really like, and that will fit in a coat pocket or a briefcase for taking around when I want to keep things light. The CL + 18 is looking good, but I'm open to other suggestions.

Many thanks for any insights you're willing to share!

Edited November 16, 2021 by JoshuaRothman

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[EUSe]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb JoshuaRothman:

Apologies if this has been addressed many times before.

I'm thinking of getting a digital CL, along with the 18mm Elmarit TL, to serve as a small-ish pocket camera. It would be replacing an X100V and GR III, which are my current small "commuting" cameras. The idea is that I'd have a slim CL to complement my larger Q2.

I'm a hobby photographer who mainly documents my family life and my travels as a journalist, and I tend to prefer simple, one-lens setups. I love the Q2—it's just perfect for me. But I've never fully bonded with the X100V and GR III, even though I've used cameras in both those series for many, many years. The X100's 35mm focal length isn't ideal for me—I prefer a wider view—and I wish the GR had a viewfinder. It seems like the CL might give me the best of both worlds: 28mm FOV, good EVF, small and light. I also really like Leica's UI, and the look of the images. Finally, I could see a future in which I pick up a telephoto zoom for my kids' soccer games, or try shooting Voigtlander lenses on the CL for fun.

For now, though, my main lens on the CL would be the pancake 18mm. That's what I'd be using 90% of the time. What's the consensus on that lens these days? I notice that there's a ton of enthusiasm for the TL 23mm, but I'm only interested in the CL because of its compact form factor, and so wouldn't use the 23mm. I see almost no one gushing over the 18mm pancake. Is it a poor performer? Or is it just not-often-discussed? Perhaps it got overshadowed by the Q's Summilux. I see a lot of people saying that they've sold their copies. What's your experience?

In the interests of full disclosure, I should say that I'm a bit all over the place in my quest to replace the X100V and GR III with a single, fairly compact camera that I'll love as much as the Q2. I've also been thinking about buying an Olympus XA2, for instance. Or even an M6—which seems like it'd be pretty small, with the right lens, and is just within my price range. Those options are appealingly different from the Q2. My main goal is just to have a camera, with a viewfinder, that I really like, and that will fit in a coat pocket or a briefcase for taking around when I want to keep things light. The CL + 18 is looking good, but I'm open to other suggestions.

Many thanks for any insights you're willing to share!

I profited from a special bundle offer and got the 18 mm TL together with the TL2 some time ago. I must confess that the quality of the lens does not match the other TL lenses. Not sure whether you would find it good enough. In the end the smallish bundle TL + 18 mm or CL + 18 did not get any use at all. The 18-56 mm TL or 11-23 mm TL are so much more versatile in comparism - but it is up to you and your preferences. 

[wda]

Joshua, welcome.

A similar question was asked last week when I gave a reference to the LFI Gallery, filteŕed to show pictures taken with that lens. There are some stunning examples. Try searching. You will find all the evidence you need.

[Guytou]

Hello JoshuaRothman,

On another post, a forumer interested in buying the TL 18mm wanted to see photos taken with it, especially at the opening f. 2.8.
Just do a search on Flick to see many images and several are made at this full opening :

 

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Personally, I find that this optic is doing very well ...
 

Guytou

[JoshuaR]

Thanks very much, everyone. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to check LFI. It does look like a great lens! The CL could be a really great option for me.

[gotium]

Have a look here:

 

[wda]

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I have little idea what I am supposed to be looking at. Is something missing?

Edited November 18, 2021 by wda

[Shawn30]

I really like the 18mm, here's one of my favorites. It's cropped way in. If you check out Matt Osborne on youtube he had a recent video where he compared 28mm len's and he included this one.

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[Shawn30]

Another example. Denver library not cropped . Not sure how it will look here, but on a Mac, or Ipad it's pretty darn sharp and impressive detail zoomed in.

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Edited November 18, 2021 by Shawn30

[gotium]

25 minutes ago, wda said:

I have little idea what I am supposed to be looking at. Is something missing?

Replying to the OP's q about the TL 18, given his experience with the Ricoh GRiii. 

[JoshuaR]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:44 PM, gotium said:

Have a look here:

 

Thanks for flagging this, it’s very very useful!

I stopped by the NYC Leica store yesterday to check out the CL. The build and layout is so nice. The EVF is great. I really liked the two control dials. I felt like I could see myself selling my GR and X100V and not missing them if I had the CL. The lens on the Ricoh is a marvel, but I just don’t enjoy using that camera very much. Whereas I can tell, just holding the CL, that I’ll enjoy taking it out immensely. It’s great to be able to stash the Ricoh in a pocket, but I’ll use my smartphone instead. I think the CL with the 18 will be small enough that carrying it along won’t be a burden, for those times when I don’t want to tote my Q2.

In the store, I tried using the CL with some M lenses. I didn’t particularly love the MF experience, especially compared to an M camera. But it seems like there are many good options for AF L-mount lenses. All in all, it felt like it would be a great camera to have as a companion to my Q2.  The question now is whether I want to move away from the simplicity of owning just one camera. It’s nice to have no choices to make!

Edited November 20, 2021 by JoshuaRothman

[tom0511]

Am 20.11.2021 um 17:30 schrieb JoshuaRothman:

Thanks for flagging this, it’s very very useful!

I stopped by the NYC Leica store yesterday to check out the CL. The build and layout is so nice. The EVF is great. I really liked the two control dials. I felt like I could see myself selling my GR and X100V and not missing them if I had the CL. The lens on the Ricoh is a marvel, but I just don’t enjoy using that camera very much. Whereas I can tell, just holding the CL, that I’ll enjoy taking it out immensely. It’s great to be able to stash the Ricoh in a pocket, but I’ll use my smartphone instead. I think the CL with the 18 will be small enough that carrying it along won’t be a burden, for those times when I don’t want to tote my Q2.

In the store, I tried using the CL with some M lenses. I didn’t particularly love the MF experience, especially compared to an M camera. But it seems like there are many good options for AF L-mount lenses. All in all, it felt like it would be a great camera to have as a companion to my Q2.  The question now is whether I want to move away from the simplicity of owning just one camera. It’s nice to have no choices to make!

But what would gain over the Q2?

[Gregm61]

Ability to interchange lenses? 

The 11-23 and 55-135mm zooms are quite excellent optics, the 35/1.4, 60mm f2.8 and 23mm f2 are all outstanding, an 18-56 is a great standard zoom. There’s not one bad native lens for the CL, 18mm f2.8 included.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Gregm61

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, tom0511 said:

But what would gain over the Q2?

CL with 18mm is smaller, and you can use different lenses (different look).

[tom0511]

I know, but I wonder when use the 18mm for the CL if one also has the Q2? Or when using a Q2 if one has the CL with 18mm.

Understanding that one is a fixed focus lens with some room for cropping and the other a system.

 

 

 

[JoshuaR]

1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

I know, but I wonder when use the 18mm for the CL if one also has the Q2? Or when using a Q2 if one has the CL with 18mm.

Understanding that one is a fixed focus lens with some room for cropping and the other a system.

 

 

 

When I posted this question, I was envisioning two use-cases for a CL: (1) as a slightly smaller, more pocket-friendly camera than the Q2; (2) as a system that I could use when the Q2’s focal range wasn’t enough (for example, at a school play when I want to take pictures of my kid on stage).

It seems like the CL would work well for both purposes. I’m still thinking of picking one up, with the 18 f/2 and something like the Sigma 28-70. 

[ropo54]

The CL would work for both purposes.

But, if image quality is your prime concern, the Q2 will outshine the CL with 18mm, it will also afford a lot more pixels for cropping and/or in-camera cropping.  The Q2 will handle low light situations much better. 

The CL, as you know, is a system allowing for so many lens options. 

 

[Daedalus2000]

On 12/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, JoshuaRothman said:

When I posted this question, I was envisioning two use-cases for a CL: (1) as a slightly smaller, more pocket-friendly camera than the Q2; (2) as a system that I could use when the Q2’s focal range wasn’t enough (for example, at a school play when I want to take pictures of my kid on stage).

It seems like the CL would work well for both purposes. I’m still thinking of picking one up, with the 18 f/2 and something like the Sigma 28-70. 

This is exactly what I did. I wanted a small Leica camera that I can have with me when I go out and I got the CL and the 18-50, which although that small is very light for the range and aperture you get. Yesterday I got the 18mm as well, as I found one at a good price. My first impression is it is very good, at least in the center. I will do some tests this week and report, but for small size nothing beats the 18mm.

But yes I also agree, the Q2 is much better, but more expensive and slightly heavier than the CL+18mm.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Daedalus2000

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[LACANYONHIKER]

I own a Q2 and I love it.  I just picked up a CL with the 18mm.  The images out of the Q2 far beat the TL 18mm.  However, I LOVE using the CL.  I travel and backpack and find the Q2 bulky and heavy for that purpose.  Since both lenses are the same focal length, I sold my 18 and picked up the 23 for light and fast travel, I'm much happier with the 23mm, it's great.  Tomorrow I might pick up the 11-23 zoom which might give my Q2 a run for the money. The two cameras complement each other very well.  I'm leaving for South Africa in a few weeks and I'm only taking the CL.  Let's see how it goes.   I will attach two images: one was taken last month with the Q2 Iguazu Falls in Argentina the other is a night shot in Los Angeles with the CL and 23mm.  Get the CL, you will fall in love with it. 

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[LACANYONHIKER]

Here is a shot with the CL and 23m that didn't need much applied noise reduction.  It might be a better comparison to the Q2 shot. 

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