Options to replace the CL

[ramarren]

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3 hours ago, lmans said:

The Pixii.....Kind of forgot about that but thanks for the reminder.... I will have to do some thinking on this and look into it more. I have to admit, it has a unique idea but how long it will last....reliability etc.....still a bit suspect I suppose. Anyone hear anything on this as of late? jim

There's been a good bit of discussion about the Pixii (the original and now the new version) on RangeFinder Forum. 🤫 

What I like about it is the fact that it is utterly simple and basic unless you use the smartphone app to change things, much like the Leica M-D 262 was (without the smartphone app extension). And I have nine nice M-mount lenses that will work on it beautifully, from 10mm to 135mm. And, from what I see of others photos, the new model's sensor is just fine for my use.

I'm not too concerned about the vendor going belly up. I expect the camera itself to be pretty reliable and it clearly works just fine entirely without using the smartphone control app at all. I haven't heard anything about cameras not functioning correctly, other than the occasional power down or incorrect exposure. 

G

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[Rick in CO]

23 hours ago, lmans said:

Just to get  a bit back on topic..... The CL and for that matter the TL (I have that one), are special cameras that have a distinct following, obviously. I can't believe that Leica will just drop this mirrorless small camera line entirely and bank everything on a line that frankly, I don't really want since it is too big, out of my league price-wise etc.... But this still remains to be seen as there is still no definitive word out on the CL2, correct?

A question I have  though concerns the longevity of the TL / CL line. Now, all any of us have to do is to look at our phones and we know that they are designed to last only a few years until we are forced to get another. The TL / CL Leica's are not designed that poorly, so I would expect them to last 10 years or so. Thoughts on that? Perhaps more than 10 years?  But given the screens, how long will any camera with touchscreen and the works really last ? jim

Noticed the blow-out sale on the TL2 with the 18-56 lens?  Maybe the technology is 5 years old but the camera still performs well. A that price you get a camera plus the zoom lens for probably about half what a prospective new CL2 body will cost - not a bad deal for a back-up camera when one can also use M lenses with an adapter!  It may signal the end of the TL series, and perhaps the 18-56 lens, however.

[ramarren]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:06 AM, lmans said:

...

A question I have  though concerns the longevity of the TL / CL line. Now, all any of us have to do is to look at our phones and we know that they are designed to last only a few years until we are forced to get another. The TL / CL Leica's are not designed that poorly, so I would expect them to last 10 years or so. Thoughts on that? Perhaps more than 10 years?  But given the screens, how long will any camera with touchscreen and the works really last ? jim

The usual reasons for smartphone replacement are a- service contract requirements and b- newer OS and apps with features that are no longer compatible with older hardware (in a product and technology space that is constantly and rapidly evolving), not hardware failure. Neither of these are concerns for a digital camera. I have an iPhone SE (2016 release)  first version that is still working fine, same for an iPad Pro 12" (2015), an iPod Touch a bit older than that, and gave my friend's young boy an older iPhone (can't remember the model, but I think it was a 2011 model) as a gift last month. They're all still working fine. The older iPhone needed a new battery installed, which cost me $30. Nothing wrong with any of the touch screens. 

My oldest digital camera is an Olympus E-1 that was first sold in 2003. I bought it in 2007, used, and its shutter actuations count has gone from 3200 exposures to 62,000 exposures. It's still working beautifully today ... I just used it as I hadn't had it out in a while. My CL is from 2018 and works perfectly after 60,000+ exposures. In fact, I've only had two of the digital cameras I've bought, used, and sold since 2003 have any problems at all, and both of those were low-end, cheapo cameras that I bought used (one a little Sony pocketable, one an Olympus E-PL1). The Sony suffered a sensor failure, the Olympus' IBIS mechanism failed. Nothing wrong with their touch screens. 

I would not worry over-much about reliability and durability. 

G

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

Noticed the blow-out sale on the TL2 with the 18-56 lens?  Maybe the technology is 5 years old but the camera still performs well. A that price you get a camera plus the zoom lens for probably about half what a prospective new CL2 body will cost - not a bad deal for a back-up camera when one can also use M lenses with an adapter!  It may signal the end of the TL series, and perhaps the 18-56 lens, however.

The 18-56 I doubt. It is too much of a mainstream lens. 

[lmans]

I see the offers on the TL2 plus lens.... I am seriously looking at getting one as I have one in my 'cart' at BH.  Actually I like the concept of the TL2 over the CL and i don't mind shooting 'live' as I do so with Ricoh's all the time. I would prefer a 23mm lens to compliment my Ricoh for street shooting but the zoom 18-56 is just fine, if not better all-around. 

Both the TL2 and the CL are now defunct I would say. Amazing that Leica would put in that much $ into R&D and just toss the product after a few years. They both have a following and Leica is heavily invested into this too. 

Listening to Ramarren, ...no issues with getting mid-deep into the shutter count. But the TL2 has more or that iPhone screen and we know how long an iPhone lasts!... But for $2500 for camera plus lens,.....I think I am going to press 'buy'....:-) jim

Edited December 22, 2021 by lmans

[wda]

9 hours ago, lmans said:

I ....

Both the TL2 and the CL are now defunct I would say. ...

So, you have talked yourself into buying a 'defunct' camera. Your words. You might surprise yourself.

[FrozenInTime]

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I wonder if the new M11 EVF Visoflex will function on the TL2 ( and M10 ) without any firmware upgrade, which we know will not happen for the TL2; a lower profile EVF could look good on the TL2.

[lmans]

I haven't quite talked myself into it....as it is still in 'my cart'.  I have been selling off some equipment that I don't use making way for other equipment although what that 'other' might be, well.....who knows. I have thought of a 'defunct' X2 as well but a poor man's current Q.... my cameras (with exception of my M's) come and go....jim

Edited December 23, 2021 by lmans

[Rick in CO]

4 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

I wonder if the new M11 EVF Visoflex will function on the TL2 ( and M10 ) without any firmware upgrade, which we know will not happen for the TL2; a lower profile EVF could look good on the TL2.

I heartily second the proposal!

[SrMi]

16 hours ago, lmans said:

Both the TL2 and the CL are now defunct I would say.

defunct: no longer existing, living, or working correctly.

Both cameras are still being manufactured, sold and work correctly.

[lmans]

Totally aware of the term defunct but being defunct doesn't imply 'not working'.... ...Are the TL2's currently being manufactured? Not sure....I assume the CL is since it appeared to last a bit longer before Leica pulled the plug. 

My whole concern with 'digital' is that they have a life span. I know I can look back at my M3 and M6 which I have had for years and they just keep on plugging away. But digital has a shelf life and if I am toying with a digital, and knowing they have a shelf life, ....that is the reason I am looking at used products but know there is a balance between a 'good price' compared to a Q2, to that of how long the used digital will last. 

 

[Kim Dahl]

9 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

I wonder if the new M11 EVF Visoflex will function on the TL2 ( and M10 ) without any firmware upgrade, which we know will not happen for the TL2; a lower profile EVF could look good on the TL2.

I have been thinking the same thing.  Whether the new evf will work on TL2 - that would be fantastic.

[ramarren]

3 hours ago, lmans said:

…My whole concern with 'digital' is that they have a life span. I know I can look back at my M3 and M6 which I have had for years and they just keep on plugging away. But digital has a shelf life and if I am toying with a digital, and knowing they have a shelf life, ....that is the reason I am looking at used products but know there is a balance between a 'good price' compared to a Q2, to that of how long the used digital will last. 

 

Again, what drives your notion of “digital has a shelf life”?  My film cameras have all required more service, more frequently, than any digital camera I’ve owned. Even the ones I’ve sold or given away to friends since 2003 (when I first bought a digital camera) are all still working well and producing the same quality images they did wheN new… ???

G

[lmans]

Perhaps you are right "G"..... I don't think I have any of my digitals from years back but yes, the ones that are older in my gear, are still working. I suppose this is a question that no one can really answer. You might get a brand new camera that is a lemon and gives up the ghost right away, or....just one that hangs on and on. So perhaps all of my concerns are for naught. jim

[Guytou]

I have a few digital devices.
The oldest are a Leica Digilux 2 from 2004 and a Canon Ixus 40 from 2005.
They remained in very good aesthetic condition and still function perfectly.

I will probably be dead before them ... ☺️

 

Guytou

[wda]

Nay, Lockdown will preserve you. 😃

[Guytou]

😇😇😇

 

Guytou

[Jeffra]

I struggle with the same issue of wanting a small, portable, yet great IQ solution. Sure, the M10 is compact BUT for me I have no desire for manual focus, so I sold mine. I've looked at all the cameras you listed as well. 

Current shooting SL2, CL and Q. This set really suits my needs and takes advantage of all my Leica glass.

CL2 intrigues me...IBIS would be nice.

As for a grab & go camera I really like the Ricoh GRIII. Offers compact/portability with good IQ.

I still have my Fuji XPro 3 and assorted lenses, but rarely use it as the CL offers more flexibility with regards to all my SL, TL and M lenses. The XPro 3 is a great camera. It's easy to use, pretty intuitive, and at a good price point. You won't have a problem transitioning. If you're after another apsc system it would be good choice.

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[ramarren]

In digital cameras, I have the Olympus E-1, Olympus E-M1, Panasonic GX9, Leica CL, Light L16, and Hasselblad 907x. I have at least a dozen different film cameras. I honestly, truly, don't need anything else. And any/all of those cameras can indeed likely outlast me. And they *all* perform very satisfactorily. 

So why be concerned over what will replace the CL? Something else will come along that seems interesting enough to buy, use, explore, and produce satisfying photos with. 

I'd like to try a Pixii. Maybe if the work on my Lancia Fulvia Coupe classic car project doesn't consume too much of my available cash, I'll order one in 2022. Or ... maybe I can sell off some of the lenses and cameras that I don't use enough anymore, and that money will be enough to buy the Pixii. 

Or ... I'll eschew all of that and just put the money into traveling somewhere... and making photographs!

G

[dkCambridgeshire]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:48 AM, FrozenInTime said:

I wonder if the new M11 EVF Visoflex will function on the TL2 ( and M10 ) without any firmware upgrade, which we know will not happen for the TL2; a lower profile EVF could look good on the TL2.

Add on EVFs only work on the cameras which  were originally designed to use the specific EVF  ... Leica's EVFs were designed by Epson. The M11 EVF when available will not work on the TL2 . The M11 Viso when available will be years ahead of the original Leica T Viso 020. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by dkCambridgeshire