ramarren Posted October 14, 2021 Share #61 Posted October 14, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't worry about "the future of APS-C" at all, not one little bit, just like I don't worry about the future of FourThirds or whatever. I don't know why one should. The TL-series lens lineup is pretty complete and new, compatible, stunning L-mount lenses that work perfectly on APS-C continue to be delivered. The vast array of M-mount lenses work great, and R mount lenses work great too. If the CL is working well for you, there's really nothing to have to plan for. If you have all the TL lenses you want/need, even more so. I bought the CL because I thought it would fill a particular niche need ... and I discovered that it is delightfully versatile and goes far beyond my expectations/needs. I use the M and R mount lenses I had with it, and bought two more M mount lenses to use with it. If, heavens, Leica killed off all APS-C bodies and went strictly FF, well, all my same lenses will work just fine. And if I had a few TL lenses, just because Leica replaces the APS-C line with a FF line of cameras doesn't mean my CL and TL lenses stop working. Just like with the SL, the TL lenses continue to work on a cropped portion of the FF sensor. I don't see any reason to be concerned about the future ... unless I was just desperate to keep buying more and more Leica APS-C gear. 🤪 I'm concerned with making photographs, and what we all have in the CL and whatever lenses we already have for it works just fine for that. G 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 14, 2021 Posted October 14, 2021 Hi ramarren, Take a look here My message to Leica AG in regards to CL!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bags27 Posted October 14, 2021 Share #62 Posted October 14, 2021 11 hours ago, jaapv said: One learns something every day... And not a word you'd expect to learn on a Leica board! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted October 14, 2021 Share #63 Posted October 14, 2021 19 hours ago, AlanJW said: Leica is not an eleemosynary entity. The bottom line is that if APS/C does not survive, it is because we consumers have voted it out with our pocketbooks. I am not talking about a legal obligation on the part of Leica. I am talking about managing trust and expectations on both sides. I don't agree with your last assertion, there are many contributing factors to the success of a product line above and beyond customer purchases as such. Keeping faith is one of them. Fuji, Pentax and others have demonstrated success with their APS/C lines, so it does look like there is market demand if properly managed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 14, 2021 Share #64 Posted October 14, 2021 9 hours ago, ramarren said: I don't worry about "the future of APS-C" at all, not one little bit, just like I don't worry about the future of FourThirds or whatever. I don't know why one should. The TL-series lens lineup is pretty complete and new, compatible, stunning L-mount lenses that work perfectly on APS-C continue to be delivered. The vast array of M-mount lenses work great, and R mount lenses work great too. If the CL is working well for you, there's really nothing to have to plan for. If you have all the TL lenses you want/need, even more so. I bought the CL because I thought it would fill a particular niche need ... and I discovered that it is delightfully versatile and goes far beyond my expectations/needs. I use the M and R mount lenses I had with it, and bought two more M mount lenses to use with it. If, heavens, Leica killed off all APS-C bodies and went strictly FF, well, all my same lenses will work just fine. And if I had a few TL lenses, just because Leica replaces the APS-C line with a FF line of cameras doesn't mean my CL and TL lenses stop working. Just like with the SL, the TL lenses continue to work on a cropped portion of the FF sensor. I don't see any reason to be concerned about the future ... unless I was just desperate to keep buying more and more Leica APS-C gear. 🤪 I'm concerned with making photographs, and what we all have in the CL and whatever lenses we already have for it works just fine for that. G Not quite - one is not static. For instance, I. purchased the new Sigma 150-600 for my wildlife - I hope to get into Africa next year and it fits my needs perfectly - however, good as it works on the CL, a camera with IBIS would be beneficial, as would be weathersealing to match the lens. So, the choice between Panasonic and Leica is a valid one. I could retire my TL from backup to its proper function of X2 replacement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 14, 2021 Share #65 Posted October 14, 2021 And after my recent holiday in Scotland I would really like a weatherproof CL system. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share #66 Posted October 14, 2021 4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: And after my recent holiday in Scotland I would really like a weatherproof CL system. Paul, with the kind of storms we have in South Florida, even a weatherproof camera wouldn't be a serious help! I never go out shooting without a plastic bag in my pocket! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex_Keshin Posted October 15, 2021 Share #67 Posted October 15, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) So is it still worth it to buy a CL in2021? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 15, 2021 Share #68 Posted October 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dex_Keshin said: So is it still worth it to buy a CL in2021? Sure, if it has the features you want. Why wouldn't it be? G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 15, 2021 Share #69 Posted October 15, 2021 It seems every Leica camera system is doomed to die at some point on this forum - they have all been predicted. Leica released the SL, PeterH decided to sell off his M system; the APS-C is doomed because the TL2 gets no support (what support? Mine doesn’t need support, it works perfectly); the S has been a failure (but apparently they sold more than they thought they would); the SL was doomed at some point … I do agree that in all its camera systems, Leica is slow to release lenses, and they seem reluctant to produce variants, eg tilt-shift etc; but in both the TL and SL range, they have wide to tele covered, quality and speed. It seems to me to be a small company that does one thing at once, and very carefully. I don’t mind that. If my TL2 dies, I’ll either consider another APS-C camera (even a CL2, perhaps), or I’ll just sell the two TL lenses I have. No big deal. Leica’s latest release doesn’t spoil what I have, and Leica seems to have perfected what I have. I’m sure they’ll repair it for me, if needs be … 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedruid Posted October 15, 2021 Share #70 Posted October 15, 2021 Leica Q2, Leica Q2M, Leica Q2 Daniel Craig & Greg Williams, Leica Q2 007 Edition..how many variants? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 15, 2021 Share #71 Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, thedruid said: Leica Q2, Leica Q2M, Leica Q2 Daniel Craig & Greg Williams, Leica Q2 007 Edition..how many variants? And your point was...? To me, the variants just show that someone is interested. G Edited October 15, 2021 by ramarren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted October 15, 2021 Share #72 Posted October 15, 2021 There have been a number of CL special editions too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted October 16, 2021 Share #73 Posted October 16, 2021 Info on the CL or not? Leica's long-term traditions have always been to keep mum on their roadmap, unless they have a particular prototype they are offering. Its more of an older Euro-business model, not necessarily contemporary, but understandable. The issue here is less the CL, and more the commitment to the TL lenses and the APS system. Its not like M lenses for which there are a huge number of bodies. Its a closed system. If they drop the CL, then if one's camera gives up the ghost (remember, its electronic, so 5 yrs from now, it may be less happy) what to do with the TL lenses? Have to get an SL for them. OK, can do, can live with this for now, but it seems that their strategy of discretion doesn't support the urge to add TL lenses. However, as noted above, it all works pretty well (wandering focus point anyone?), is a great size, with superb flexibility and wonderful images. I hope they stay with it, its really quite good. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedruid Posted October 16, 2021 Share #74 Posted October 16, 2021 On 10/15/2021 at 11:25 AM, ramarren said: And your point was...? To me, the variants just show that someone is interested. G That maybe the cost of the development of ONE of the variants could go towards a CL2. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 17, 2021 Share #75 Posted October 17, 2021 I think that you perhaps overestimate the cost of developing a "limited edition" model with minor cosmetic deviation from the standard production vs developing a new camera with new functionality and features. The first is a couple of weeks work for a styling, design, and packaging team, the second is a year or two development effort with a full engineering team. G 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted October 17, 2021 Share #76 Posted October 17, 2021 There will be a CL2 for sure. But no TL3. You’ve got constant proof of life of CL line up ! With regular firmware updates: latest 4.1 in June 2021 ! But you also got proof of death of TL cameras line up ! With no firmware update since October 2018 ! Leica does not bother to support a line of camera without future. That’s why they still actively support CL but not TL2. My trusted Leica store assured me that CL2 exists. It is just postponed for unknown reasons. I guess chip shortage. By the way Leica needs entry level cameras. Panasonic rebranded are too far away from real Leicas. So you cannot have a start up price of 5,000€ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 17, 2021 Share #77 Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, nicci78 said: But you also got proof of death of TL cameras line up ! With no firmware update since October 2018 ! Why does the TL2 need a firmware update? While I have no particular interest in a TL3, the fact that the camera works perfectly, and doesn’t need a firmware upgrade proves nothing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2021 Share #78 Posted October 17, 2021 Firmware updates are often a marketing tool increasing or maintaining product awareness and customer loyalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted October 17, 2021 Share #79 Posted October 17, 2021 27 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said: Why does the TL2 need a firmware update? While I have no particular interest in a TL3, the fact that the camera works perfectly, and doesn’t need a firmware upgrade proves nothing. Much needed firmware update for full L-mount alliance compatibility from Sigma and Panasonic lenses. And to bring AF performance on par with CL. It is quite incredible that TL2 and CL share the same inner electronics but CL’s AF is much faster than TL2. And in less than 4 years CL got 4 major updates, refining its user interface and performance for the better. On the other hand, TL2 got none. Just a tweaked update to iron out some early bugs. A shame from Leica to let their loyal TL line up fans down. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 17, 2021 Share #80 Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: Much needed firmware update for full L-mount alliance compatibility from Sigma and Panasonic lenses. And to bring AF performance on par with CL. It is quite incredible that TL2 and CL share the same inner electronics but CL’s AF is much faster than TL2. And in less than 4 years CL got 4 major updates, refining its user interface and performance for the better. On the other hand, TL2 got none. Just a tweaked update to iron out some early bugs. A shame from Leica to let their loyal TL line up fans down. The CL's AF has always been faster than that of the TL2 - I tested it at launch, and it was immediately noticeable. I suspect it is a hardware limitation in the TL2 - perhaps one particular chip not up to speed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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