Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

[ramarren]

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3 hours ago, loloboubou1 said:

I chose this one because taken handheld in very low light conditions at f 2.0 with the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.0 35 and ... at 1/12 !

I understand that you suffer from GAS ... could I however advise you to try two lenses that I find quite fabulous in APS-C:
- the little-known tiny MS-Optics Apoqualia 2.0 28. Master Myazaki has designed a two-sided lens: soft without being vaporous, with very elegant transitions below f 5.6 and very sharp and precise above. Also note a particular rendering for night photos under urban lighting.
- The elmar 3.8 24 (I am a fan of the 35 in FF) which is incredibly homogeneous at all apertures (3.8 is not a problem with the very good increase in Isos of the Pixii.
- I am currently testing the CV APO Lanthar 2.0 35 which again is excellent from 2.0 but may be too good, too perfect everywhere. Maybe I should disadjust my rangefinder, some people really like this way of shooting.

LOL! GAS? Not really, most of the equipment I have has been in my possession for at least several years now. 

In Leica M-mount, I have 10, 21, 24, 28, 35, 43, 50, 75, 90, and 135 mm lenses, acquired over the past 14 years (most prior to six years ago). In Leica R-mount, I have 15, 19, 28, 50, 60 Macro, 90, 100 Macro, 135, and 180 mm lenses, as well as a 2x teleconverter, again acquired between 2011 and 2016. The R-mount lenses I use (presently) on Leicaflex SL, Leica R6.2, Leica CL (digital) and Hasselblad 907x bodies, although truth be told I haven't used any of the Leica SLR cameras for some time. They work great on the CL (and on the SL, which I no longer have) but are a bit bulky compared to M-mount lenses. Of course, they're not appropriate for the Pixii ... 

• I have had the MS-Optics Aporia 24mm f/2 for a year and some: It also is a superb performer, and it's as tiny as a 24mm f/2 lens can get ... barely larger than a body cap. I'll likely have to have the rangefinder cam calibrated if I want to use it on the Pixii as I'm pretty sure its somewhat off the mark; I bought it specifically to make the CL slim and easy to carry when cycling.
• I had one of the Elmar-M 24/3.8 ASPH some years back: I agree it's an excellent performer, but I traded it in part for a WATE which suited my needs better. I subsequently sold that too. On APS-C format I tend to prefer a 21mm lens much of the time, which is why I just acquired the Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1. I've been out testing it with the Leica CL today and it seems impressively good. 
• My favorite 35mm lens is a 1972 Summilux 35/1.4. It goes from delightfully glowy to dead sharp between f/1.4 and f/5.6, and is tiny. A beautiful Walter Mandler design. 

I don't think I need more lenses at this point, but thank you for the notes.  

G

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[pgk]

17 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Tools argument is not relevant for this toy. It can’t handle large lenses, battery capacity is miserable.

Instead of generic arguing just watch real use review. I did.

Will it take more than 36 exposures ....... not everone blatts away. Nor uses big heavy lenses (and are less likely too on a small body). I only 'trust' reviews when I believe the reviewer to know what they are talking about - in my experience  (which is not good) too many think they know about their chosen topic rather than actually do so. But believe them if you wish to do so. This camera is not for me but I would like it to do well and then perhaps a simple full frame model might become a reality - this might well interest me.

[nicci78]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:33 AM, Ko.Fe. said:

This camera has serious design flaw. Mount is to close to RF window. Only small lenses are not blocking RF patch.

And it set the record on the shortest lasting battery.

 

 

 

Nice video. 
Thanks for sharing. 
Au revoir chérie ! Je pense. 🤣

the rangefinder base length is even shorter than expected!! Physically crazy short. That’s why slightly bigger lens will block the rangefinder patch. 
It is a kind of dead on arrival design 

[pop]

11 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

It is a kind of dead on arrival design

Ah yes, there are some lenses that can not be used at all or only with restrictions on this camera. That's, of course, a killer for any camera body, and explains why there are no rangefinder cameras on the market any more.

[lct]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

the rangefinder base length is even shorter than expected!!

Was expected as is since 2020 at least. See my then post below.

 

[nicci78]

I did not realise that the rangefinder window is the one in the centre, not the one on the left !  
It is effective worst than most rangefinder available. Except original CL. 

[nicci78]

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5 hours ago, pop said:

Ah yes, there are some lenses that can not be used at all or only with restrictions on this camera. That's, of course, a killer for any camera body, and explains why there are no rangefinder cameras on the market any more.

At least Leica makes sure that almost every M lenses work well enough with any M body analog or digital. 
Zero M lenses from Leica block the rangefinder window. Not even mega huge Noctilux-M 75mm and its twin brother Summilux-M 90. 
 

[ramarren]

The only questions that matter are whether the camera has accurate focusing accuracy to meet the needs of the people who want to use it, and whether it supports the lenses that most people who would buy it either own or want to own.

The 1954 Kodak Retina IIc/IIIc has an effective baseline that's quite similar to the Pixii (mechanical about 46mm, viewfinder about .7x, so somewhere around an EBL of 32.5mm), and it focuses its available 50mm f/2.8 or f/2, 80mm f/4, and 35mm f/5.6 or f/4 lenses quite accurately. And the Pixii's APS-C format nets more DoF so focusing accuracy is relieved a bit further. I see no reason why the Pixii with an ~32.5 EBL won't focus very nicely with a 35mm f/1.4 or f/2, 50mm f/2.8, or 21mm f/3.5 lens set.

I also can't see purchasing a Pixii with the intent of sticking a 21mm f/1.4, 50mm f/1, or 75mm f/1.4 lens on it. It defeats the purpose of buying a small, light camera ... sticking a bulky, 1-2 lb lens onto it that is massively oversize for the body just doesn't make sense, especially in the circumstance where there are many other similarly priced or cheaper bodies that can handle those lenses' focusing requirements and form factor much better.

If you're going to disparage a rangefinder camera on its versatility and ability to be used with "any lens" no matter how extreme, well, there's a reason that so few RF cameras are being produced anymore. And if you want the MOST versatile rangefinder camera ever made, the answer is obvious: the Leica M is the only one still in production, at double to triple the new cost of the Pixii. 

When I get a Pixii, I will use 10mm f/5.6 (blocks the RF but doesn't need anything but scale focusing anyway), 21/3.5, 28/3.5, 35/1.4, 43/1.9, and 50/2 on it. I'll probably try it out with a 75/2.4, 90/4, and 135/4.5 as well. I'll leave judging the results until I have them in hand to evaluate. There's really no point in conjecturing about it.  

G

[loloboubou1]

I used some very long and clever calculations to find the answer to your questions about the blocking of the viewfinder. The answer is: maximum barel length 60 mm and diameter 62 mm. I'll leave it up to you to spec hunt to find out which is blocking and which isn't. What is certain is that most pass without problems and that you have to be at least ... adventurous to place the huge 0.95 TVs and other noctilux on the poor little Pixii!

[loloboubou1]

Some rumors : Leica Rumors

[loloboubou1]

Another rumour... a big Youtuber is interested in Pixii, it's here: Mattias Burling

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, loloboubou1 said:

Another rumour... a big Youtuber is interested in Pixii, it's here: Mattias Burling

@loloboubou1, Are you by any chance related to the company producing the Pixii?

[loloboubou1]

Il y a 25 minutes, Studienkamera a dit :

@loloboubou1, Êtes-vous par hasard lié à la société qui produit le Pixii ?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. I bought my Pixii and I try to make known its quality because I think it's a great human and industrial adventure that is often unfairly treated by jealous or embittered people.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, loloboubou1 said:

ABSOLUTELY NOT. I bought my Pixii and I try to make known its quality because I think it's a great human and industrial adventure that is often unfairly treated by jealous or embittered people.

Fair enough, thanks.

[jaapv]

Let’s bring some objectivity into this discussion. Simple pro’s and con’s 

Pro:

nice looking well-built camera 

excellent sensor and results

cheapest and smallest rangefinder camera on the market 

Cons: 

One of the most  expensive APS camera’s on the market

short RF base, thus less accurate with more demanding lenses 

Low battery capacity

no auxiliary EVF for non-RF lenses

 Cannot  take larger M lenses through viewfinder intrusion 

unproven long-term reliability and support 

( unusual DNG format )

Just a matter of crossing our pros and cons to decide to buy. It will be a different outcome for different photographers. 

[loloboubou1]

Il y a 4 minutes, Studienkamera a dit :

Assez juste, merci.

 

For me anyway the only valid promotion for a camera is to give the raw DNG files. To all those who wish, this is here : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/32s60kh2tj0b4em/AABbWy4uWeJ44WPUltl-zJPCa?dl=0

[loloboubou1]

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Objectivity ...

Please dont forget :

PRO :

Native B&W DNG files (on patent but look at my Dropbox and try it !!!)

Silent Electronic shutter at 30 fps  (no rolling shutter / no banding even in various Led's lights). Setting in the menu possible at 5 fps to further improve the quality in static shooting.

No issues for me using focal lenghts : CV15, Biogon 21, CV 21, Elmar 24, Apôqualia 28, Apo Lanthar 2 35 & 2 50, Nokton 1.2 50 & Heliar 75.  A simple calculation reveals the total compatibility without blocking the rangefinder window of any lenses less than 60 mm in length and 62 mm in diameter. It can even use collapsible Leica lenses that digital Leicas themselves can’t use.

The Pixii is of modular design, thus: processor, sensor, memory can be changed quickly for evolution. It is industrially designed for that! Owners of the first Pixii were able to change their 11 MB sensor for the 26 MB and upgrade their camera without changing! I know that this concept is difficult to understand for those who suffer from GAS 😉 You will tell me how many of you have not dreamed of being offered an evolution rather than a new purchase with a big loss at the resale...

CONS : 

Battery ... For the price of the FW50 batteries... I got 6 (double charger included) for the price of one from Leica. So yes I change quite often, every 1.5 to 2 hours ... but I have 6 small and light ones in my bag.

Unusual DNG  ... but supported by ADOBE camera raw (Pixii is in the listing since september ) so : LR & PS are ok for me 

Unproven long term reliability and support : luckily not everyone thinks like that otherwise it wouldn't be fun for me to drive a Ford T. Joking aside, when I have a technical question I call support and I have someone competent who responds ... when I propose a suggestion, an improvement I am personally listened to ... and I obtain ... For me what is proposed here as a negative point by the objective friend Jaapv (a structure on a human scale) is extremely important, even decisive in 2022! I need to know and have a contact ... and I'm not naive, I know how to read a company's accounts and when I read the names of the investors that the CEO of Pixii has brought together for his project I don't ask myself any questions for the long-term future of the Pixii company.

 

Can you, please, and this éléments to your synthetic post dear Jaapv

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by loloboubou1

[jaapv]

As I said, everybody will weigh these points differently. 

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[jaapv]

The only thing I do not believe is native B&W files. The camera has a Bayer filter so the drawbacks of a Bayer sensor (optical aberrations and resolution loss by the filter and interpolation cycle) cannot be avoided. I am sure that the camera does a pre-DNG conversion -probably the reason for the linear DNG-  but that is not the same thing. It may well be that this conversion results in a very good raw B&W file, avoiding the need for the  specialized postprocessing skills needed for an optimal conversion, comparable to the excellent B&W JPGs produced by the M8 (but now avoiding JPG compression) ) but it is not the same.

[loloboubou1]

43 minutes ago, jaapv said:

As I said, everybody will weigh these points differently. 

As the dictionary says, giving an objective judgment requires presenting all the arguments and not weighing them differently and saying that everyone will form their own opinion. This is the basic principle of information and normally the purpose of a user forum.

 

 

For the b&w Dngs, on a more serious level, do you master the concept of industrial patents? What can be patented and what can't? I ask you again to try the DNGs that I have provided to you. do you want me to place a comparison file from my M Monochrom in the dropbox so that you can process side by side?