Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

[loloboubou1]

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1 hour ago, lct said:

Just asking because Lightroom 11.1 Classic for Mac is mentioned in the exif data. 

In LR / development panel, i choose in the history : « as imported »  and then export as « original ». 

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[loloboubou1]

8 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Image wise current PX3I is nothing special, which is better from initial just totally nothing special.

It receives adequate interest. Next to none. I was watching one and only decent reviews of this camera on YT.

IMO. Not close to "competition" and has nothing to do with "complementary" .

If you have ego disposable cash, it is what else to buy to be special (while you can't take decent picture) thing.

Or you want to support independent goof who has some access to cash and wants to try something different, while choosing RF simply because it allows to cut AF complications.  

Congratulations Kostya, here is a post that will advance thought and photographic criticism! Well argued from a concrete experience of use.
Nice reference to a YT video dedicated to the first Pixii with an 11 MB industrial sensor.
I took the liberty of going to see your photos to understand what you call "decent picture" ... I think I understood. Thank you again for devoting a few minutes of your precious time to writing this delicious literature. My reference in this field would rather be a writer named Talleyrand who wrote: "All that is excessive is insignificant"

PS: under the red dot you will find a screw that can be very useful.

[pgk]

8 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Image wise current PX3I is nothing special, which is better from initial just totally nothing special.

Why does everything have to be 'special' to be valid? Cameras should be tools and chosen to fit the photographer's requirements not because they are somehow 'special'.. 

[ramarren]

14 hours ago, loloboubou1 said:

Hello Lct, Ramarren and others curious. I created a DNG Pixii folder on Dropbox. I placed very different files there and not necessarily "beautiful photos": monochrome native DNG, Bayer, landscapes, clouds-laden skies, streets, portraits, night, mist, colorful luna park, ... Most of them clearly exposed on the left (preservation of HL) which modified my usual exposure routines. Under LR the material is quickly found

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/32s60kh2tj0b4em/AABbWy4uWeJ44WPUltl-zJPCa?dl=0

Very nice, Laurant; thank you! Besides some of them being excellent photos in and of themselves, the photos inform me that the Pixii has plenty of moxie and will be a nice RF complement to the Leica CL. Now to working on funding a purchase...

G

[loloboubou1]

Thank you ! Like what you can meet nice people on this forum!
It's not a best-off but a selection of DNGs that I think illustrate the flexibility and variety of Pixii DNG processing.
Anyway the truth is found when you print! In a flow of 50x70 printed images mixed with H 907x, M10 and A7 III we recognize the images from the Medium Format but for the others...

[Ko.Fe.]

5 hours ago, loloboubou1 said:

Congratulations Kostya, here is a post that will advance thought and photographic criticism! Well argued from a concrete experience of use.
Nice reference to a YT video dedicated to the first Pixii with an 11 MB industrial sensor.
I took the liberty of going to see your photos to understand what you call "decent picture" ... I think I understood. Thank you again for devoting a few minutes of your precious time to writing this delicious literature. My reference in this field would rather be a writer named Talleyrand who wrote: "All that is excessive is insignificant"

PS: under the red dot you will find a screw that can be very useful.

I’m just not a tool who think what sharp images are equal to quality. I was watching videos about recent version. It can’t use large lenses, RF is getting blocked.

[Ko.Fe.]

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5 hours ago, pgk said:

Why does everything have to be 'special' to be valid? Cameras should be tools and chosen to fit the photographer's requirements not because they are somehow 'special'.. 

Tools argument is not relevant for this toy. It can’t handle large lenses, battery capacity is miserable.

Instead of generic arguing just watch real use review. I did.

[lct]

29 minutes ago, loloboubou1 said:

Thank you ! Like what you can meet nice people on this forum!
It's not a best-off but a selection of DNGs that I think illustrate the flexibility and variety of Pixii DNG processing.
Anyway the truth is found when you print! In a flow of 50x70 printed images mixed with H 907x, M10 and A7 III we recognize the images from the Medium Format but for the others...

Would you have a DNG file at 6400 or 12800 iso by chance? Just curious again sorry.

[ramarren]

29 minutes ago, loloboubou1 said:

Thank you ! Like what you can meet nice people on this forum!
It's not a best-off but a selection of DNGs that I think illustrate the flexibility and variety of Pixii DNG processing.
Anyway the truth is found when you print! In a flow of 50x70 printed images mixed with H 907x, M10 and A7 III we recognize the images from the Medium Format but for the others...

Planning my Pixii now..

Looking at the sizes of these DNG files, it seems that a 64G Pixii should hold about 1200 or so raw files before you need to delete anything. That seems the sweet spot for me, I usually tend to shoot 1200-2400 photos total on a two week holiday and can back it up to a 500G external storage unit when it gets full. 

And the Color Skopar 21mm f/3.5 I just acquired will work beautifully on the Pixii, just like it does on the Leica CL.

G

[ramarren]

hey Koffee:

Not all of us have vast collections of "large RF lenses", you know. Many of us like compact RF cameras because they are compact, and buy lenses that suit those notions. 

My only "large RF lens" is a Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6 Aspheric. It also has NO RF coupling, as such a short focal length doesn't need one...  

G

[loloboubou1]

2 hours ago, ramarren said:

Very nice, Laurant; thank you! Besides some of them being excellent photos in and of themselves, the photos inform me that the Pixii has plenty of moxie and will be a nice RF complement to the Leica CL. Now to working on funding a purchase...

G

You deserve it 😉 

you can also download your pictures with a usb-c key directly on the Pixii.  It’s really useful. 
 

For Kofe you can read my lenses listing above … I don’t need Noctilux où summilux 24 on m’y Pixii. 
 

And please … its confusing … sharp and bad focus aren’t similar … turn the little screw .. 

[loloboubou1]

20 minutes ago, lct said:

Would you have a DNG file at 6400 or 12800 iso by chance? Just curious again sorry.

Yes … a grave with very few light @ 6400 I put it in the Dropbox since I go back home (4 hours) 

[Ko.Fe.]

6 hours ago, loloboubou1 said:

Congratulations Kostya, here is a post that will advance thought and photographic criticism! Well argued from a concrete experience of use.
Nice reference to a YT video dedicated to the first Pixii with an 11 MB industrial sensor.
I took the liberty of going to see your photos to understand what you call "decent picture" ... I think I understood. Thank you again for devoting a few minutes of your precious time to writing this delicious literature. My reference in this field would rather be a writer named Talleyrand who wrote: "All that is excessive is insignificant"

PS: under the red dot you will find a screw that can be very useful.

Sorry, I forgot is is LUF after all. Maximum easiness of digestion must be always provided.

Here it is, enjoy:

 

[pop]

30 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Tools argument is not relevant for this toy. It can’t handle large lenses, battery capacity is miserable.

Instead of generic arguing just watch real use review. I did.

I fail to see the relevance of your contributions here, as they are based on hear-say.

There are lots of things some expensive cameras can't do that less expensive ones do very well. So what? None of my M mount cameras so far could be used with any of my longer tele lenses. The M-E can not be used with some wide angles and you must not collapse some lenses while mounted and you must not mount some lenses while collapsed.

I would like to ask you to stop that silly game. 'My tool is the only tool there is and your tools are but toys' is not useful for anyone, not even you.

The Pixii, like many other cameras, ticks a number of boxes for a number of users and fails to do so for other users, as does the M-E.

Battery capacity, while not exciting, is perfectly reasonable, and you can charge it in the camera with any power bank. Try to do that with an M Leica. Your statement suggests that you just quote the reviews that support your view. Otherwise, you could very well know that the apparent battery issue is an operator error and disappears when you turn off the WiFi. Try using the M-E with WiFi.

[lct]

Claiming that big 50/0.95 or 50/1 lenses can block the VF is of little relevance given that the Pixii's effective base length is not large enough to focus lenses that fast. Remember the film CL? Those are not cameras made for such lenses, there are Leica Ms for that. Would be more constructive to show how the camera behaves with compact 50mm lenses like Summicron 50/2 v4 or Sonnar 50/1.5.

Edited March 5, 2022 by lct

[loloboubou1]

5 hours ago, loloboubou1 said:

Yes … a grave with very few light @ 6400 I put it in the Dropbox since I go back home (4 hours) 

Hello ! I placed in the DNG PIXXI / DROPBOX folder a DNG file called Pixii_6400isos.dng
Photo taken at night, under the snow in a cemetery. Maybe you will see vampire footprints 😉

Not yet a big dropbox specialist tell me if it's ok for you guys ?

[ramarren]

4 hours ago, lct said:

Claiming that big 50/0.95 or 50/1 lenses can block the VF is of little relevance given that the Pixii's effective base length is not large enough to focus lenses that fast. Remember the film CL? Those are not cameras made for such lenses, there are Leica Ms for that. Would be more constructive to show how the camera behaves with compact 50mm lenses like Summicron 50/2 v4 or Sonnar 50/1.5.

This is true, but I did occasionally fit a Noctilux 50/1 and Summilux 75/1.4 to the CL film body. With suitable care and practice, I made very sharp photos with that setup. Of course, such lenses are generally not at their best on the compact bodies simply because of their size and weight, never mind the more limited accuracy of the shorter baseline rangefinder.

If the Pixii focuses a Summicron-M 50/2 nicely, it will work well enough for most anything I'm going to do with it. 

So I went back and reviewed the video (and its part 2 follow on) that Koffee keeps referencing. (I had watched it once upon a time...) Again, the review was made with the original Pixii, not the new "V2" sensor, and even the presenter noted that nearly all his gripes in the first video were solved nicely with the first firmware update. Also note that the presenter did keep the camera, so it must have some merit ... even to him, despite his gripes in the first video. 

Altogether, Laurant's photos show more than all this specification debate and silliness. His photos show that the camera is capable of a lot of excellent photography ... FAR more capable, I suspect, then the cameras I used in the early '00s when I was running my photo business and making a decent living from the photos I made. That's good enough for me.  

What's appealing to me is that the Pixii form factor is very close to the Leica CL, the weight is close, the pixel resolution is very similar, and the same lenses will fit on either. The CL sensor is very good; if the Pixii sensor is pretty much the same or better, there'll be no issues for my use. And the Pixii haptics seem about right. The CL is a more versatile camera by dint of it being an EVF, TTL viewing and focusing camera, but I suspect the Pixii's RF will do better in brightly lit circumstances. 

G

[ramarren]

15 minutes ago, loloboubou1 said:

Hello ! I placed in the DNG PIXXI / DROPBOX folder a DNG file called Pixii_6400isos.dng
Photo taken at night, under the snow in a cemetery. Maybe you will see vampire footprints 😉

Not yet a big dropbox specialist tell me if it's ok for you guys ?

It worked just fine for me, Laurant. 

Far as I can see: The ISO 6400 image looks virtually identical to any similar ISO 6400 image taken with the CL when viewed in LR Classic at the defaults. A small amount of noise/grain but otherwise just fine. 

G

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[loloboubou1]

4 hours ago, pop said:

I fail to see the relevance of your contributions here, as they are based on hear-say.

There are lots of things some expensive cameras can't do that less expensive ones do very well. So what? None of my M mount cameras so far could be used with any of my longer tele lenses. The M-E can not be used with some wide angles and you must not collapse some lenses while mounted and you must not mount some lenses while collapsed.

I would like to ask you to stop that silly game. 'My tool is the only tool there is and your tools are but toys' is not useful for anyone, not even you.

The Pixii, like many other cameras, ticks a number of boxes for a number of users and fails to do so for other users, as does the M-E.

Battery capacity, while not exciting, is perfectly reasonable, and you can charge it in the camera with any power bank. Try to do that with an M Leica. Your statement suggests that you just quote the reviews that support your view. Otherwise, you could very well know that the apparent battery issue is an operator error and disappears when you turn off the WiFi. Try using the M-E with WiFi.

Thanks for these informations. I allow myself to add a few for the community of photographers on Youtube:
The batteries are not efficient in terms of autonomy: yes, but did you specify that it is a standard model, small in size, which costs 30 euros per pair, including an external charger?
- The "busy" bug is fixed since the January release !!! Who are we kidding to use this as an argument? I was one of the first buyers of an M8 which received as much oil on the sensor as an English motorcycle, I know what launch bugs are, thank you!
- Do you have difficulty reading my previous posts ? I have compiled a list of tested lenses. In fact it's simple and the mathematical calculation unstoppable: any lens with a diameter greater than 62 mm will block part of the rangefinder window. I'll let you list the incompatibles.
- Among these there is of course the 0.95 canon ... Bad luck for you, I have this lens. I won't have the idea of using it on Pixii, on the other hand I can tell you that with it it is particularly difficult to manually reach the unlock button on the Leica M. Who would seriously think of complaining about that in an "exotic" use of an old canon lens on an Leica M. However, I am going to give you a wonderful recipe in this case: I use the cap of a ballpoint pen to put pressure!!!
Finally, it is not very "sporty" to set a video on the negative part ... and not to say a word about what may seem to you annexed but which, personally, interests me in a camera: l excellent image quality!

[loloboubou1]

17 minutes ago, ramarren said:

It worked just fine for me, Laurant. 

Far as I can see: The ISO 6400 image looks virtually identical to any similar ISO 6400 image taken with the CL when viewed in LR Classic at the defaults. A small amount of noise/grain but otherwise just fine. 

G

I chose this one because taken handheld in very low light conditions at f 2.0 with the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.0 35 and ... at 1/12 !

I understand that you suffer from GAS ... could I however advise you to try two lenses that I find quite fabulous in APS-C:
- the little-known tiny MS-Optics Apoqualia 2.0 28. Master Myazaki has designed a two-sided lens: soft without being vaporous, with very elegant transitions below f 5.6 and very sharp and precise above. Also note a particular rendering for night photos under urban lighting.
- The elmar 3.8 24 (I am a fan of the 35 in FF) which is incredibly homogeneous at all apertures (3.8 is not a problem with the very good increase in Isos of the Pixii.
- I am currently testing the CV APO Lanthar 2.0 35 which again is excellent from 2.0 but may be too good, too perfect everywhere. Maybe I should disadjust my rangefinder, some people really like this way of shooting.

Edited March 5, 2022 by loloboubou1