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Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]


northernlights

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RF experience... Reminds me of my R-D1 and R-D1s. The first one was too expensive and the second one came too late actually. Pixii did not make that mistake but with its short effective base length, the rangefinder is only usable with not too fast M lenses i suspect. No problem with 35/2, 40/2 and 50/2 lenses i guess but i'd rather use a CV 28/2 instead of a Leica 28/2 which would block the VF too much presumably. I have no experience with this camera though. It would have to be more responsive to interest me if i had not several RFs already.

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1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

This camera has serious design flaw. Mount is to close to RF window. Only small lenses are not blocking RF patch.

And it set the record on the shortest lasting battery

I take it you are not interested in buying one.

I'll watch the video when I have time to ... I'm not going to be buying anything for some time yet. But I usually evaluate products for myself unless I have a good understanding of a particular reviewer's notions and opinions. 

G

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2 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

This camera has serious design flaw. Mount is to close to RF window. Only small lenses are not blocking RF patch.

And it set the record on the shortest lasting battery.

 

 

 

In the meantime, a software update was released that addressed some issues mentioned, including battery life.

It is my understanding that only the huge Noctilux lenses have an issue.

 

Edited by SrMi
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Okay, I watched both the video that KoFe posted and the follow-on that included the latest firmware updates that SrMi posted. The reviewer sounds like a typical kinda whiney modern camera-enthusiast guy who likes to complain about anything that doesn't exactly meet his expectations, whatever they might be or however he came up with them. I mean, really, when was the last time you picked up your Leica M and set it to Continuous exposure mode for fast sequence shooting? I'd have to say I've never even done that when I was schlepping a bag full of motor-driven SLR gear around... 

And if it breaks, what should you do? Contact the manufacturer, right? of course... Not every lens works well on it? Okay, how many of you have a Canon RF f/0.95 lens that completely covers the RF window? And ... you are complaining about battery life while walking about with a WiFi server host turned on, and complaining about it? ... Sheesh. 

Be all that as it may, it looks like Pixii makers are actually developing and improving the camera as time goes on. So that looks like a positive thing. 

Yeah the Pixii version 2 is not perfect. But consider: The whole reason I'm even interested is that the EVF on the CL isn't really the best viewing/focusing option when I'm outside on a sunlit day, and just about any decent optical viewfinder with an RF window will do better with most of the lenses I'd even consider putting on it. That's why it might be worth the money.

G

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11 minutes ago, ramarren said:

The reviewer sounds like a typical kinda whiney modern camera-enthusiast guy who likes to complain about anything that doesn't exactly meet his expectations, whatever they might be or however he came up with them.

I recently bought a lens. Trying to find a really objective review on the web prior to buying it proved to be difficult, if not nigh impossible. Most 'reviewers' never state exactly what credentials they have for producing a worthwhile review, most then use vague terminology and make sweeping statements and, worst of all, demonstrate their findings generally with web jpegs or if not, allow bland RAW files to be downloaded which rarely demonstrate 'stressed' photographic situations (where the equipment can be seen performing under a testing condition). So I gave up on reviews, bought the lens and tried it myself. It works fine, delivers well enough and I know that the person who tested it (me) knows exatly what he wants to use it for(😊). Problem solved.

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31 minutes ago, pgk said:

I recently bought a lens. Trying to find a really objective review on the web prior to buying it proved to be difficult, if not nigh impossible. Most 'reviewers' never state exactly what credentials they have for producing a worthwhile review, most then use vague terminology and make sweeping statements and, worst of all, demonstrate their findings generally with web jpegs or if not, allow bland RAW files to be downloaded which rarely demonstrate 'stressed' photographic situations (where the equipment can be seen performing under a testing condition). So I gave up on reviews, bought the lens and tried it myself. It works fine, delivers well enough and I know that the person who tested it (me) knows exatly what he wants to use it for(😊). Problem solved.

My solution exactly. I read/watch reviews purely for the actual manufacturers' specifications they present, and for the amusement value. 

G

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18 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

This camera has serious design flaw. Mount is to close to RF window. Only small lenses are not blocking RF patch.

And it set the record on the shortest lasting battery.

 

 

 

In the comments are replies from the Pixii founder. The most interesting one:

Re the M-mount compatibility issue, he says they did not try to be compatible with huge-diameter, wide-aperture lenses because these lenses could not be focused accurately with the rangefinder anyway. [He also says most Leicas can't focus these lenses accurately either without a factory recalibration, which agrees with many comments I've heard from Leica users.] He notes that in some ways the Pixii lens mount is MORE compatible than those of digital Leicas: It was designed especially to handle collapsible lenses such as the Elmar and Summicron, and deep-set lenses such as the Hologon, which Leica does not recommend on their digital cameras because of the danger of scratching the shutter blades.

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4 hours ago, SrMi said:

In the comments are replies from the Pixii founder. The most interesting one:

Re the M-mount compatibility issue, he says they did not try to be compatible with huge-diameter, wide-aperture lenses because these lenses could not be focused accurately with the rangefinder anyway. [He also says most Leicas can't focus these lenses accurately either without a factory recalibration, which agrees with many comments I've heard from Leica users.] He notes that in some ways the Pixii lens mount is MORE compatible than those of digital Leicas: It was designed especially to handle collapsible lenses such as the Elmar and Summicron, and deep-set lenses such as the Hologon, which Leica does not recommend on their digital cameras because of the danger of scratching the shutter blades.

Makes good sense to me. The absence of a focal plane shutter nets more room between the back of the lens and the sensor ... I would guess this is where the extra space for the collapsibles comes in. 

If I buy a Pixii, the lenses I'll most likely use on it are my Hyperwide 10/5.6, Color Skopar 28/3.5, Summilux 35/1.4, Summicron-M 50/2, and M-Rokkor 90/4 ... All of them petite and small diameter other than the 10mm, which has no rangefinder cam anyway (and doesn't need one!). 

I'm a good distance from making a purchase as yet, but I'm excited thinking about it. I like this camera's simple features and trim design a lot. 

G

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There are no 75mm nor 90mm frame lines in the Pixii's VF as far as i know. Its short RF base should allow for accurate focusing at f/4 with 90mm lenses normally but it is a focal length i rarely used on my R-D1 and R-D1s. 28/35/50 worked perfectly though and there are 40mm frame lines in the PIxii's VF. 21mm lenses worked fine with a special 1.5x external VF Cosina used to sell along with the Epson bodies then but i don't know if it is available now.

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I don't use 75 or 90 mm very often on APS-C, can estimate I'm sure. I do have accessory finders that will give me up to a 135mm eqFOV framing utility. Also have a 15mm FOV finder for use with the 10mm lens.

It'll be fine, for me anyway. :D

G

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Here is the viewfinder i was referring to for those interested. Its FoV is not 21mm but 21x1.5 = 32mm more or less.

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I'm all for more entrants into the world of m-mount/rangefinder but I'm not sure now is a good time for new entrants into the camera market. Personally I have my M, CL and SL2-S. Each has it's place and function and I don't see this fitting into my camera line-up. That's not to say it won't suit someone but it's a no from me.

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  • 1 month later...

DXO review of the Pixii sensor is out. 
Rated at 90. 
The best APS sensor on the market.

A great achievement for a young and small company. 
I am considering buying one as a small and light rangefinder. It will not replace my M but could be very nice with a Cron 40 or Summaron 28. 

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The body of the pixii is really well made; so is the rangefinder. However, mine was a bit off when I received it. Fortunately, if you ask them, they will send you instructions on how to adjust the rangefinder. It's a bit fiddly, of course, but it works reasonably well. The body is surprisingly large for a CL sensor, but it handles quite well.

The rangefinder is reasonably accurate for the 40mm/f/2.0, and it appears to be in a league with the 'real' CL.

The software still has issues, but they're very responsive and they love receiving feedback from actual users. This applies both the software in the camera as well as the software in the phone. It turned out that I don't use the software in the phone as often as I had thought I would. Even so, I would find a printed manual for the software helpful, but it's not mandatory.

The camera is to me all I really wanted for my latest acquisition: a walk-around camera with an optical range finder, without a screen and a minimal set of controls. It's as pleasant to use as was the Epson but with an recent sensor. I even bought myself the 28mm Rokkor-M so that I can have the same FOV as I used to have on the CL, even though I'm bound to use the 40mm Summicron-C most of the time. By the way, I use the rubber lens hood for the 90mm Elmar-C on the 40mm Summicron-C. Due to the crop factor, there's no measurable vignetting at all.

Edited by pop
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2 hours ago, Dopaco said:

I think it's too expensive.
An M8 or M9 would give a better result.
If the price was between 1,000 or 1,500 euros, you could try and buy.
Leica TL2 has 32G internal memory storage, plus an SD card.
I'm sorry, but I don't think this camera is a success.

I thought so, too, at first.

However:

An M8 in reasonable shape is listed - on average - for not much less than the Pixii; but it has an ancient sensor with about 11MP and needs very expensive IR blocking filters if you're going to work in color. Whether it can still be maintained or not is subject to much debate. The coffe stain issue comes to mind (which is, perhaps, moot if you're going to use the camera as if it had no display). Its shutter is so noisy it wakes the dead.

Many M9s are listed for at least as much as a new Pixii, usually much higher. Their sensors are not so much less ancient as those of the M8, and it can be quite challenging to find a copy with a corrosion-proof sensor. Maintainability may or may not be an issue, and I wouldn't like to find out.

The average Epson R-D1 also appears to go for about 2.5k which is not much less than the Pixii, and it has an even older and smaller sensor than the M8.

The TL2 does not have an optical rangefinder which is the whole point of the Pixii.

The Pixii does not have a removable storage card but can very easily and reasonably quickly move the contents of its storage to - say - a Toshiba 1TB T5 SSD. Removable storage cards are not so much of an advantage as it may seem at first. I still remember the issue the M9 used to have with many brands of storage cards, and even today many questions center on selecting and using those things.

Judging the price of any product can be seen from two sides. If you compare a product to seemingly comparable products, anyone buying a device that can only take photographs at Leica's prices must be considered mad these days. If you take into account that the Pixii is the first camera produced by a ridiculously small outfit, and that it is a well made camera, 3k is not all that formidable anymore. Remember the first digital Leicas with their issues and their pricing?

I'm not convinced that an M8 or M9 would give a "better result", given the very much state-of-the-art sensor in the Pixii. It all depends on how to define any camera to be "a success'".

 

Edited by pop
typo
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  • andybarton changed the title to Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

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