Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

[ramarren]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Choosing "fast" under the sensor menu has nothing to do with the type of jpeg it produces. It chooses the readout speed of the sensor. "Fast" makes rolling shutter artifacts very rare. As opposed to "Fine" which will have higher ADC precision and better for still life/landscape/tripod.

I always set all my cameras to raw only, never use JPEGs out of camera. So only what might affect the raw file is of significance to me.

It's a little sad: My "ideal" camera was the Leica M-D 262. No settings other than the aperture, shutter, focus, and ISO. Nothing but raw files out. ... I should never have sold it. Sigh. 

G

[ramarren]

5 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Then I see little benefit for me - I have a Monochrom, M10-D & M-A, with all the benefits they entail.

If you already have the Leica M models, then yes: a Pixii is mostly redundant. The Pixii for me is a way to get an optical, coupled range/viewfinder body with the same format as the CL EVF body. 

It's three times the money, but my finger has lingered over the buy button on a Leica M10 Monochrom for months. Switching the Pixii to MONO mode and enjoying the constraints/freedom of a monochrome only camera may indeed induce a localized high-gravity situation on that M10 Monochrom button.... 😱

G

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Then I see little benefit for me - I have a Monochrom, M10-D & M-A, with all the benefits they entail.

Pixii is smaller and lighter than M10 cameras. It is also much less expensive than new Leica cameras. Also, Leica stopped making cameras without the rear LCD (an advantage for some).
I agree that the currently available Leica cameras have a broader appeal, but some users want something like Pixii instead.

I wish there were more manufacturers that would allow a less expensive entry into the rangefinder world.

Note that, according to DxO measurements, Pixii has better DR than M10 (link). 

 

 

[pop]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:46 PM, pop said:

It's not all that small:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

When size matters.

[lct]

link: https://bit.ly/3rRHi19

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Pixii is smaller and lighter than M10 cameras. It is also much less expensive than new Leica cameras. Also, Leica stopped making cameras without the rear LCD (an advantage for some).
I agree that the currently available Leica cameras have a broader appeal, but some users want something like Pixii instead.

I wish there were more manufacturers that would allow a less expensive entry into the rangefinder world.

Note that, according to DxO measurements, Pixii has better DR than M10 (link). 

 

 

Oh, yes.  I can see the appeal. But, having M cameras, I would gain nothing.  Also, I see no advantage using my existing M lenses with an APS-C format camera not much smaller than an M camera, and losing the wide angle field of view that is the strength of the M system.

DXO measures are of zero interest to me, and zero benefit to my photography.

[SrMi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

35 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Oh, yes.  I can see the appeal. But, having M cameras, I would gain nothing.  Also, I see no advantage using my existing M lenses with an APS-C format camera not much smaller than an M camera, and losing the wide angle field of view that is the strength of the M system.

DXO measures are of zero interest to me, and zero benefit to my photography.

I have not tested whether that difference matters in practice, but having less noise at higher ISOs is something that many care about.

To be clear, I am not arguing that Pixii should be an interesting camera for you, but that others may find it interesting for real reasons and not because of GAS :).

[ramarren]

My significant interests in the Pixii were/are for the optical viewfinder and the 'dedicated' monochrome mode. The fact that I use the CL as my TTL camera makes its APS-C format a natural ... Use all the same lenses on the same size sensor. 

It does have a very nice sensor: 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Blue Blossoms
Pixii + Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 v1
ISO 320 @ f/5.6 @ 1/125

I haven't had time to process and post all of my Color-Skopar 21mm test photos yet. I do notice a bit of edge color-shifting with this lens ... the Pixii sensor seems to be a bit more sensitive to certain optical formulae than the Leica CL sensor. 

Oh yes: that's about 40% of the full frame captured in this case. The sunlight and shadows made any other angle/distance on these lovely little blossoms almost impossible. 

G

Edited April 27, 2022 by ramarren

[IkarusJohn]

8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I have not tested whether that difference matters in practice, but having less noise at higher ISOs is something that many care about.

To be clear, I am not arguing that Pixii should be an interesting camera for you, but that others may find it interesting for real reasons and not because of GAS :).

I’m sure the camera has appeal, and I wish the makers the best of luck.  It’s very good to see some options.  But does this camera really fill a niche, other than price?

The rage over the discontinuance of the APS-C Leicas are unlikely to be filled by this camera, as it is M mount, rather than L mount - it doesn’t solve the TL lens legacy problem.  I guess as an entry camera, you can buy the Pixii and some of the smaller, second hand M lenses and have an affordable system, but I’d have to say that having M lenses, I prefer to use the full image circle.  Then again, does that really matter?  The smaller sensor cuts out the corners and edges which can be problematic …

High ISO, noise etc - not a concern for me.  Much like resolution, that’s a tail-chasing exercise in my view.  But then, I still use film …

Edited April 27, 2022 by IkarusJohn

[ramarren]

1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m sure the camera has appeal, and I wish the makers the best of luck.  It’s very good to see some options.  But does this camera really fill a niche, other then price?

The rage over the discontinuance of the APS-C Leicas are unlikely to be filled by this camera, as it is M mount, rather than L mount - it doesn’t solve the TL lens legacy problem.  I guess as anentry camera, you can buy the Pixii and some of the smaller, second hand M lenses and have an entry system, but I’d have to say that having M lenses, I prefer to use the full image circle.  Then again, does that really matter?  The smaller sensor cuts out the corners and edges which can be problematic …

High ISO, noise etc - not a concern for me.  Much like resolution, that’s a tail-chasing exercise in my view.  But then, I still use film …

Well, given that the only other available NEW rangefinder cameras now are Leica M10-R, M10 Monochrom, and M11 at three times the price, for those who want a NEW digital rangefinder camera, the Pixii represents quite a lot less expensive option. And even the fine Leica APS-C EVF bodies in the $2500-3000 category seem to be going away if the various reports are true. (I know, I know: there are the Fujis and various others, but I have M-mount lenses and want an optical view/rangefinder... I have zero interest in buying another system and its dedicated lenses.)  

G

[raizans]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

I wish there were more manufacturers that would allow a less expensive entry into the rangefinder world.

For me, this is easily the most compelling thing about the Pixii.

I would go so far as to say that APS-C is preferable for "traditional" rangefinder photography styles. More depth of field, easier to scale focus by feel, smaller files. The lens options are a problem, but they're not going to kill you.

Edited April 27, 2022 by raizans

[IkarusJohn]

True.

But then, is a NEW M mount camera, with an APS-C sensor, with no lens code reader, really better than a secondhand M digital?  At the price, probably.  But then, once you have your Pixii and a secondhand M lens, wouldn’t you still be looking at late model secondhand M digitals?

Your first M is always the most expensive 🥺

Edit - I should have quoted Godfrey - @ramarren

Edited April 27, 2022 by IkarusJohn

[ramarren]

45 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

True.

But then, is a NEW M mount camera, with an APS-C sensor, with no lens code reader, really better than a secondhand M digital?  At the price, probably.  But then, once you have your Pixii and a secondhand M lens, wouldn’t you still be looking at late model secondhand M digitals?

Your first M is always the most expensive 🥺

Edit - I should have quoted Godfrey - @ramarren

Well, since we're talking lower costs, most users will buy Voigtlander or Zeiss lenses, or some of those cheaper makes, or older Leica lenses, which don't have lens codes anyway. I used those lenses on my M-D 262 with few problems, no reason they wouldn't work even better on APS-C format, with some exceptions based upon lens-sensor optical match.

There are always options to buy secondhand cameras and lenses.  

G

PS... never mind that I have had M9, M-P240, M-D262, SL, and CL ... and I can see differences in both dynamic range and other nuances of this sensor with the same lenses. The Pixii sensor is very, very good, up to date.  

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by ramarren

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m sure the camera has appeal, and I wish the makers the best of luck.  It’s very good to see some options.  But does this camera really fill a niche, other than price?

The rage over the discontinuance of the APS-C Leicas are unlikely to be filled by this camera, as it is M mount, rather than L mount - it doesn’t solve the TL lens legacy problem.  I guess as an entry camera, you can buy the Pixii and some of the smaller, second hand M lenses and have an affordable system, but I’d have to say that having M lenses, I prefer to use the full image circle.  Then again, does that really matter?  The smaller sensor cuts out the corners and edges which can be problematic …

High ISO, noise etc - not a concern for me.  Much like resolution, that’s a tail-chasing exercise in my view.  But then, I still use film …

I think that uncoded and inexpensive CVs are a good match.

[loloboubou1]

 

 

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

I think that uncoded and inexpensive CVs are a good match.

Especially since some recent CVs designed for pixel-doped FF sensors are almost equal ... I'm thinking about the excellent APO Lanthar 2.0 35 and 50 mm😉

 

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, ramarren said:

…

PS... never mind that I have had M9, M-P240, M-D262, SL, and CL ... and I can see differences in both dynamic range and other nuances of this sensor with the same lenses. The Pixii sensor is very, very good, up to date.  

 

Good to know.  I have found that I can (often) tell the differences between lenses, sensors and in camera processing if the compared systems are presented side-by-side, with the same subject, focal length, format, settings, lighting and processing.  I never conduct such testing myself, and I find the limiting factor is never my equipment.

I agree on the quality and price of alternative lenses to Leica’s offerings. Interesting to see a resurgence in the M mount ecosystem. 

[Chris W]

Talking of affordable M mount - I recently bought a used M240 from a dealer. I think it was about £1700? I traded stuff in so I only paid a couple of hundred pounds.

The M240 experience really reminds me of my M6. For *me* the images produced are very nice.

I have to say I don't really enjoy using my CL and it is in the last chance saloon ahead of a trip to France when it will be my main camera. It might convert me.

I agree with IcarusJohn about the M lens legacy and the issue with APSC based cameras. That is my ONLY criticism.

[Viv]

I am still sitting on the fence regarding purchase of the Pixii.

If I were to buy it, I would use it with a Zeiss ZM 35mm lens, thus having a rangefinder outfit at a reasonable cost.

[loloboubou1]

 

2 hours ago, Viv said:

I am still sitting on the fence regarding purchase of the Pixii.

If I were to buy it, I would use it with a Zeiss ZM 35mm lens, thus having a rangefinder outfit at a reasonable cost.

Biogon 2.0 or 2.8. Distagon 1.4  is, in my opinion, too big. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Viv]

2 hours ago, loloboubou1 said:

 

Biogon 2.0 or 2.8. Distagon 1.4  is, in my opinion, too big. 

I agree.