Leica Glass Prices!

[archiea]

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On 9/26/2021 at 10:25 AM, plaidshirts said:

I’m so glad my Leica GAS is effectively controlled, for now…

...you mean in remission.   😄  you have yoru credit card checked by the spousal unit every 6 months...   web browser history every month! Gotta keep ahead of the relapses!! 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[MarkP]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:38 PM, Artin said:

Michael that’s ok it’s part of the hobby it happens from time to time, I have 11 jets and we have a lot of fun 

 

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Very cool A-120 Warthog 🙂

How fast are these models?

[Gelatino]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:01 PM, Artin said:

I wonder if I buy that 35 Lux and take only one picture with her and destroy the lens. I probably will sell that image for 3 million dollars

Before destroying the lens be sure the front cap have been removed from the hood  before  taking the picture.😃

Edited October 1, 2021 by Gelatino

[junix]

If you guys thing Leica Glass got expensive.. try to get a hood for the Noctilux 1.2..

https://www.schouten-select.com/index.php/leica-12503-lens-hood-for-noctilux-50mm-f1-2-very-rare.html

[junix]

18 minutes ago, Artin said:

Well if the lens is over 50k.  I guess the hood is just following trend. 

Sure thing, at least the hood has no focus shift.. 😀

[Herr Barnack]

€5,500.00 for just the lens hood?  Somebody has been hitting the sauce.

[MrFriendly]

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I think this video pretty much explains what's happening in the world of Leica:  https://youtu.be/mn6NwCvFIaA

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by MrFriendly

[pippy]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:05 PM, junix said:

If you guys thing Leica Glass got expensive.. try to get a hood for the Noctilux 1.2..

https://www.schouten-select.com/index.php/leica-12503-lens-hood-for-noctilux-50mm-f1-2-very-rare.html

Here's one which, all things considered, is being offered for a more reasonable sum - but to be fair only after the original asking price had been reduced slightly;

https://www.pluttion.top/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_33&products_id=18828

If only I had an original f1.2 I'd have bought it myself....

Philip.

 

[Jean-Michel]

Just for reminiscing: I have a 1970 catalogue from Toronto Camera (a long defunct pro camera shop). Here are the list prices from some Leica lenses — and nobody ever paid the list price, the real price was always lower.

50 mm lenses (all prices in 1970 Canadian dollars):

Summicron: $192.00

Summilux: $262.50

Elmar: $93.00

Noctilux f/1.2: $954.00  ( that is about $6,500 Canadian today, or US $5,300)

At the time I purchased an M4 and 50mm Summicron for all for CDN $399.00 (about $2700 in today's dollars)!  The list price was $552.00

 

[Peter Zapp]

There is a finite inventory of vintage Leica glass as against a worldwide growing middle class with a worldwide growing population of Leica enthusiasts. 

[Theory033]

21 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

Just for reminiscing: I have a 1970 catalogue from Toronto Camera (a long defunct pro camera shop). Here are the list prices from some Leica lenses — and nobody ever paid the list price, the real price was always lower.

50 mm lenses (all prices in 1970 Canadian dollars):

Summicron: $192.00

Summilux: $262.50

Elmar: $93.00

Noctilux f/1.2: $954.00  ( that is about $6,500 Canadian today, or US $5,300)

At the time I purchased an M4 and 50mm Summicron for all for CDN $399.00 (about $2700 in today's dollars)!  The list price was $552.00

 

The average price of a new car in 1970 in the U.S. was $3,542 (US Dollars). I never buy expensive cars but I believe you can't pick up anything "nice" under $30,000 today, the Volvo build form on their site had few options under $50,000. Are Leica lenses currently that overpriced? 

[Jean-Michel]

2 hours ago, Theory033 said:

The average price of a new car in 1970 in the U.S. was $3,542 (US Dollars). I never buy expensive cars but I believe you can't pick up anything "nice" under $30,000 today, the Volvo build form on their site had few options under $50,000. Are Leica lenses currently that overpriced? 

Hi,

Well, "overpriced" is really only valid if one has no choice at all. Today, just as then, there are many options available to people looking to purchase photographic equipment. It so happens that Leica stuff is still seen as valuable years later — when I 'went digital' I essentially gave away all my large format and Hasselblad equipment  to people who could use it, selling it was not worth the trouble. I choose to own and use Leica stuff, price is only one factor in my purchase decision.

Still, for comparison, in today's Canadian funds, that $192 Summicron would list today  at $1,300, not the $3,200 –$3,500 shown on my Leica dealer's price list. The $360 list for the M4 would list at $2,500, yet a film body (M-A or MP) is listed at about $6500. So if today's prices were applied to the 1970 era stuff, the prices then would have been about 2 and one-half time higher. The Nikon F as listed at $265, or $355 with a 50 f/2 Auto-Nikor lens.

[luigi bertolotti]

On 10/17/2021 at 9:54 PM, pippy said:

Here's one which, all things considered, is being offered for a more reasonable sum - but to be fair only after the original asking price had been reduced slightly;

https://www.pluttion.top/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_33&products_id=18828

If only I had an original f1.2 I'd have bought it myself....

Philip.

 

Fun to think that for 5500 $ one can surely build a perfekt fake... but not for 39 $ !!😆

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

Writing about increases in costs represented in USofA Dollars between approximately 1970 & today;

Keeping in mind that altho some of the coins & currency look physically the same. And some are even made of the same materials:

These are REPRESENTATIONS of future value & future opportunity that are adjustable by the issuing authority:

They are NOT actual future value & future opportunity:

And that adjustments need to be made with other monetary systems, adjusted for their relationship to USofA Dollars then, as well as to any changes that these other Currencies may have gone thru themselves:

I would guess that in today's World now: It takes $12 today in USofA Dollars to buy what $1 in USofA Dollars would have bought in 1970. Or perhaps a little more in USofA Dollars today.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[jdlaing]

40 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Everybody,

Writing about increases in costs represented in USofA Dollars between approximately 1970 & today;

Keeping in mind that altho some of the coins & currency look physically the same. And some are even made of the same materials:

These are REPRESENTATIONS of future value & future opportunity that are adjustable by the issuing authority:

They are NOT actual future value & future opportunity:

And that adjustments need to be made with other monetary systems, adjusted for their relationship to USofA Dollars then, as well as to any changes that these other Currencies may have gone thru themselves:

I would guess that in today's World now: It takes $12 today in USofA Dollars to buy what $1 in USofA Dollars would have bought in 1970. Or perhaps a little more in USofA Dollars today.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

The median household income in 1970 US was $9,870. In 2020 it was $67,521.

We made more in 2020 so we spent more in 2020.

Bottom line is 1970 prices were only good for calculation in 1970 and have absolutely no bearing on today.

[cboy]

On 10/21/2021 at 6:54 AM, Jean-Michel said:

Just for reminiscing: I have a 1970 catalogue from Toronto Camera (a long defunct pro camera shop). Here are the list prices from some Leica lenses — and nobody ever paid the list price, the real price was always lower.

50 mm lenses (all prices in 1970 Canadian dollars):

Summicron: $192.00

Summilux: $262.50

Elmar: $93.00

Noctilux f/1.2: $954.00  ( that is about $6,500 Canadian today, or US $5,300)

At the time I purchased an M4 and 50mm Summicron for all for CDN $399.00 (about $2700 in today's dollars)!  The list price was $552.00

 

What would be actual price of those items now adjusted for inflation? Minus that from the current rrp = leica profit

Edited October 22, 2021 by cboy

[Michael Geschlecht]

1 hour ago, jdlaing said:

The median household income in 1970 US was $9,870. In 2020 it was $67,521.

We made more in 2020 so we spent more in 2020.

Bottom line is 1970 prices were only good for calculation in 1970 and have absolutely no bearing on today.

Hello JD,

I used to think that it was difficult to compare Dollars then to Dollars now, or Dollars at another time because I used to use things like official inflation rates, median incomes & the like. When things didn't seem to coalesce I stopped using them & I invented my own system.

Your choice of "median income" in 1970 & now is interesting because it fits right in:

1970 was at the beginning of the "big inflation" which came about because the money printed to pay for the war in Vietnam was beginning to be worked into the economy but it hadn't damaged the economy that much yet.

So: If you take your $9,870 in 1970 Dollars & multiply it by 12 you get $118,440.

If you divide $67,521 by $118,440 you get 57% in round numbers. Keeping in mind that this is the number Nationally & in some parts of the Country the actual percentage may vary 1 way or the other for a variety of reasons.

57% reads about right for me: If you use the criteria of: How long did you work & after you subtract all taxes, medical care, educational costs, housing costs, electricity & other FIXED & NECESSARY costs: What do you have to show for it?

If you look at the house on the street that the average person grew up on: When many people were growing up: 1 person went out to work a 40 hour week unless they wanted something extra. Then they would work overtime. The other person would stay at home & often work just as hard raising a family & keeping a home.

Today, in that same home on that same street: 1 person will work full time. The other person will most likely work part time or full time & their children will spend a good portion of time in day care, pre-school, or the like. They will spend less time being a family, or part of a family with 1 adult at home with the children together. And once they subtract the FIXED & NECESSARY costs I listed above: They will have less left over income to do other things with as a family together. Adjusting for the current value of the money compared with what it would have bought in 1970.

Best Regards,

Michael
 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[adan]

~6.8 times the 1970 price accounts for inflation (Canadian dollars)

50mm Summicron - today's adjusted price would be C$ 1305.60

50mm Summilux - today's adjusted price would be C$ 1785.00

50mm Elmar - today's adjusted price would be C$ 632.40

HOWEVER

1) today's lenses are not the same lenses available in 1970. All of them have had at least one major re-design, and nominally perform better (sometimes a lot better).

In a mixed analogy, a Ford F-150 pickup base price in 1973 was $US 2889 - today the base price is $US 26940  (or 9.32 times as much). But again, it is not the same product (by a long shot) that was sold in 1970. One gets more for one's money.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/34333/heres-how-much-the-ford-f-150-has-increased-in-price-over-the-decades

2) Leica's "business currency" (in which they calculate expenses, most salaries, profit and loss) has changed from Deutsche Marks in 1970 to the Euro today. Leica prices their gear in Euros, at a rate that will produce a profit in Euros. Then converts that to equivalent amounts in other currencies (at rates which change daily)

To really calculate Leica's pricing consistently (avoiding the ups and downs of other countries' economies) one would need to do it in DM/Euros from 1970.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/412794/euro-to-u-s-dollar-annual-average-exchange-rate/

3) In 2004, Leica nearly went bankrupt. A pretty good indication that they were not charging enough for their products, at that time, to cover expenses. Dr. Kaufmann has been vigilant in making sure Leica doesn't fall into that trap again - mostly by raising the gear prices from time to time (and disposing of the least-profitable products - e.g. the R system).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Michael Geschlecht]

55 minutes ago, adan said:

~6.8 times the 1970 price accounts for inflation (Canadian dollars)

50mm Summicron - today's adjusted price would be C$ 1305.60

50mm Summilux - today's adjusted price would be C$ 1785.00

50mm Elmar - today's adjusted price would be C$ 632.40

HOWEVER

1) today's lenses are not the same lenses available in 1970. All of them have had at least one major re-design, and nominally perform better (sometimes a lot better).

In a mixed analogy, a Ford F-150 pickup base price in 1973 was $US 2889 - today the base price is $US 26940  (or 9.32 times as much). But again, it is not the same product (by a long shot) that was sold in 1970. One gets more for one's money.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/34333/heres-how-much-the-ford-f-150-has-increased-in-price-over-the-decades

2) Leica's "business currency" (in which they calculate expenses, most salaries, profit and loss) has changed from Deutsche Marks in 1970 to the Euro today. Leica prices their gear in Euros, at a rate that will produce a profit in Euros. Then converts that to equivalent amounts in other currencies (at rates which change daily)

To really calculate Leica's pricing consistently (avoiding the ups and downs of other countries' economies) one would need to do it in DM/Euros from 1970.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/412794/euro-to-u-s-dollar-annual-average-exchange-rate/

3) In 2004, Leica nearly went bankrupt. A pretty good indication that they were not charging enough for their products, at that time, to cover expenses. Dr. Kaufmann has been vigilant in making sure Leica doesn't fall into that trap again - mostly by raising the gear prices from time to time (and disposing of the least-profitable products - e.g. the R system).

Hello Andy,

If I could make a few small adjustments please:

In 1970 dollars, when most M4's & all of the 3 lenses would have been made in Wetzlar. Keeping in mind that there had been at least 100 M4's made in Midland at that time: So, the value of the camera & the lenses would most likely have been determined in Deutsch Marks. When Deutsch Marks, if I remember correctly, were around 4 to a USofA Dollar. Which is 1 of the things that made things, like cars, from Germany such a good deal back then.

And, if I also remember correctly: The value of a Canadian Dollar in USofA Dollars was about 1.00 Canadian Dollar to $1.10 in USofA Dollars.

Today it is approximately 1.25 Canadian Dollars to 1.00 USofA Dollar. 

So, that would make the 399 Canadian Dollars for an M4 & a 50mm f2 Summicron be approximately $440 USofA Dollars back then. Which means 1,760 Deutsch Marks back then.

Now we need to know the relationship of Deutsch Marks to Euros AT THE TIME WHEN THE DEUTSCH MARK TO EURO RATE WAS FIXED. Because that is the "store of value" that we have to work with.

Then we can adjust those Euros to Euros now & then change those Euros back to Canadian Dollars today.

Does anyone out there know the exchange rate & date when Deutsch Marks were fixed to Euros for the conversion?

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[Pyrogallol]

Page from the April 1962 price list. I remember that around that time the Exchange rate was US$2.40 to the British £.

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